The people of Forsyth County need to STOP and think about what this snake oil salesmen is offering. Seago says; ""Forty percent of the money comes from people outside the county," Of course, that also means if I shop in Fulton County, I'm doing something over there. But for us, 40 percent of the funds are coming from outside the county. It's hard to walk away from 40 percent."

This is the very definition of nitwittery and left wing focused group lies. Think about it ....

1. Is Forsyth County the only county that benefits from this 40% rule? No. Gwinnett, Fulton, Hall, Cherokee, and Dawson all benefit. In fact, Dekalb, Rockdale, Cobb, all other counties make the same claim.

2. That means all counties get SPLOST from citizens of other counties. It's a wash ... It is simply just another tax. Ask yourself a question.

Do more Gwinnett, Hall, Fulton, Dawson, and Cherokee citizens shop at the Avenues of Forsyth than Forsythians shop at the Mall of Georgia, Dawsonville outlets, Northpoint Mall, Gwinnett Mall, Sugarloaf Mall, etc. Afterall the big shopping areas are all outside Forsyth County. How then does Forsyth County benefit so greatly?

Citizens of Forsyth I beseech you, DO NOT VOTE TO RENEW THIS SPLOST. SPLOST is particularly egregious because it is a tax and debt requiring interest payments. This County has nearly $1.0 billion in outstanding debt, its time to pay it down. These left wing personalities are destroying your wealth.

We have the worst recession in 80 years. The national unemployment rate is 9.1%. Home foreclosures are at an all time high. Now is the time to provide relief to the taxpayers, not to saddle them with another 6 years of SPLOST taxes.

Per the 2010 Census, there are 54,161 households in the county. SPLOST is a $200 million tax which means the cost is $3,692 per household. Undoubtedly, those who are struggling to hold on, would have better uses for that money than the County Commissioners.

People need to know that the State of Georgia will be placing a Transportation SPLOST on the ballot in 2012, adding another 1% to the sales tax. It is no wonder the county wants theirs to be done through a special election. Pass both and we will have 8% sales tax in the county.

Someone needs to validate the "savings" quoted by Mr. Seago. When Sheriff Paxton presented his numbers to the Forsyth County GOP, he told us that he was paying $35/day to house prisoners in surrounding counties. $19/day was for food that would have to be paid for anyway, leaving $16/day in savings. Currently there are about 250 such prisoners. Even if that doubled to 500, that would only be a savings of $2,920,000 per year, or $29,200,00 over ten years. A far cry from the $100 million they want to spend for the courthouse and jail. And it does not include the additional operating costs of a larger facility (HVAC, electricity, additional staffing, etc). Sorry, but the figures just don't add up.

David, I think instead of throwing around big numbers like 40% and 100 million dollars in inmate housing expenses, you should show us the facts. No one has ever been able to prove that we would recieve 40% of the 200 million from outside our county. I would be willing to bet that it maybe closer to 15 or 20%. Once more if we pass splost VII and the state passes the TSplost next year, the tax payers of Forsyth county will be paying 8%. I have a better idea, if we vote down Splost VII and the state passes the TSplost , that will put our tax rate at 7% and everyone else around us at 8%. I think the retailers stand a much better chance of getting to that 40% this way than your way.
Also, let's tell the true story about the jail and the courthouse. We all agree that we could use these new facilities but those of us who are opposed , oppose the process in which you want them. There have been no design bids that I know of and no serious discussion about renovations to the exisisting buildings. If our county officials wwere more upfront and fourh coming with how they spend OUR money, we all may be more inclined to believe that they will all do the RIGHT thing. History has not shown us that.

My husband and I have asked on several occasions for the county to do an independent efficiency study (like businesses do) of county departments to see what, if anything, could be done to save us money while helping the government run more efficiently. We even gave them a name and number of a GA Tech professional who does such studies. No one would be opposed if they felt confident these things are truly neccessary and the county has been good stewards of our money. So, why hasn't it been done? I have yet to get an answer on that.

Everytime this jail issue comes up, I feel it is important to have a good jail system but I am stunned at the pie-in-the-sky projects they think up. Show us some reasonably-priced options. Show us an independent verification that you are spending wisely. Until then, I vote NO NEW TAXES!

Just say AND VOTE NO - everyone has their arguments for and against but it's our pocket books that get hurt no matter how it turns out. Not now - maybe later is my attitude at this point.

Our commissioners have already shown that they are more than willing to take advantage of the tax payers generosity, We ok'd a SPLOST tax before and still had further tax increases. Lets say NO to anymore taxes and force our government to live within their means. Are we not being asked to do the same? And what are the "great things" he speaks of ? And why do you take the numbers given to you by the department that wants you to spend money on them? Should we not get a outside audit? Is that not sort of like asking the fox to guard the hen house?

It is totally immoral, absolutely inconceivable to me that a people that call themselves a free people, living in a civilized society in a great nation and prosperous County would allow, cheer, and empower people that have no vested interest in the ownership of another man’s private property except for some claim they dream up. Why would we allow people the opportunity to vote to take from your neighbor and put debt on that family's shoulders? Just because you can pull a lever or sign a ballot does not give you the right to confiscate some other man’s private property from him?

What does it say about our society that we operate under the pretense that another man has some God-given right to something called a vote, and that vote can be used to confiscate a portion of what another man has earned?

SPLOST is immoral at its very core.

My research shows that local Republican & Democratic Parties & Cumming-Forsyth Chamber of Commerce recommend voting YES SPLOST VII. I listened to sheriff & superior court judge speak at county work session: county is suffering financial waste & human inefficiency due to outmoded detention facility and courthouse. When jail & justice center came up for a vote twice previously, Cumming's Mayor did not agree with the location or method of financing, despite obvious need then for these improvements. But now with SPLOST VII the mayor says, "The needs of the city are the needs of Forsyth County, and the courthouse and the additional improvements to the jail are certainly of interest to the city," Gravitt said. "The location is in the city of Cumming, and we intend to support the SPLOST for the jail and the courthouse."

The best reason to vote YES SPLOST VII: "Over the next ten years, it is estimated that Forsyth County will spend more than $100 million in housing prisoners in surrounding counties and renting space for our county’s judicial system. This means, that in less than ten years, the jail expansion and new courthouse will MORE than pay for themselves–keeping our local tax dollars in our local community."

Once the jail and courthouse are up, then improvements will be made to the list of designated roads and intersections that are most congested and dangerous.

As for the naysayers: Condemnant quod non intellegunt.

Condemnant quod non intellegunt, "They condemn because they do not understand," a phrase used to defend almost anything. A phrase used to make one look more intelligent to others.
We have roads that are decades out of date in the northern county and you would hold upgrading these roads hostage to boost the egos of some? You say It would take ten years to pay this back. That is code for 20 years and in ten years we will be right back looking to expand again. Our government has more than proved they are willing to say one thing and with no guilt do just the opposite. They prey upon the short memories and emotions of the voters. We need to hold our government accountable for taxes raised in the past despite SLOST increases before we willingly open our (the tax payers) wallets ever again. A tax granted is a tax forever. If you do not think so notice the 400 tool booths are still up. It was promised they would come down when 400 was paid for. Well 400 is paid for and there they stand. We have to start making out elected officials be transparent in executing their duties. Otherwise Forsyth county should take noitce of what continuous tax hikes have done to California. Vote No.

So far, I've listened to the arguments of the naysayers and those of the yeasayers and I have my opinion and you have your opinion. I didn't arrive at my decision to vote YES SPLOST VII on the basis of 400 toll, or what's going on in California - all kinds of things are happening across our great nation. My opinion is not based on emotion and I have a very good memory. My opinion is based on a cost-benefit analysis of the facts and figures relevant to these projects now, later or never. I came to the conclusion that it was in my best interest to VOTE YES SPLOST VII.

Granted that the majority of road improvements are for south and central county but I see 7 intersection improvement projects on the A List for the northern end of the county. The southern and central portions of Forsyth are terribly congested and daily volume much greater than roads in the north.

I agree - taxpayer always gets the short end of the stick. My view of political system is based on the lesser of two evils, in this case voting to fund these projects NOW is the lesser of two evils, same thing with almost every pair of elective candidates.

I don't want a District Court judge supervising our jail, telling us how to build it, or the Supreme Court of Georgia reversing the conviction of a notorious murderer simply because there was insufficient room in the courtroom for the "public" to attend or a killing spree because a prisoner was being hauled here there and everywhere.

As for transparency, I'm all for it and always have been, so we agree there for sure. Without it, our freedom will surely be lost, but I believe that the SPOLOST VII process has been highly visible and above-board. Your view may be different.

I'm unaware of high school bait and switch but I am aware that demographics can change from the time the SPLOST is approved and the time the money is available for building a particular school (or making the listed road improvement necessitating a change).

I'm no expert on 369 corridor. I have watched the evolution of the 141 corridor, and I don't see much similiarity between them - Hall and Gainesville being on a completely different development track from NE Fulton, but that's an interesting discussion for another time.

John,
So what you are saying we cannot learn from the mistakes of others? Or we should not look at the record of our government leaders past actions? That is a little short sighted. All I am saying is that I believe the citizens of this county are tired of being taken for a ride every time a SLOST vote comes around. Our leaders need to show 100 % what this money is going to get us. We voted for a SLOST to build a new High School in the northern part of the county and yet a new one has been built in the south instead. So how do we know that this money is all that is needed or will even go to what its intended purpose is? Again I say transparency is the answer. If the 369 corridor had been allowed to commercialize like the 141 corridor, we may have had plenty of sales and business taxes to pay for this. Again until our leaders show some intelligence. with out prejudice to one side of the county and restraint with our tax money, I vote that they have all they will get..

Big word for you Bill. You should use rant - easier to spell and type. And yes I'm an Esquire, but I cut my teeth and made my bones in information technology and network engineering for 20+ years. Among other things, I'm a taxpayer, husband, father and grandfather and I like to ride a bike. So what?

Marc, if there is a legal or poltical mechanism for solving the demographic change scenario, then I'm all in favor of using it, but bottom line is that as long as it's spent on a highway project that genuinely needs improvement (it's not rocket science), I'm not going to vote no for the detention center and justice center on the basis of some miniscule eventuality or unrealistic principle. In my view a new detention center and justice center are the centerpieces of SPLOST VII. I'll admit that I have no idea who, how or why the additional road projects were added to SPLOST VII, but there's nothing I can discern that is Maybe one or both of you can enlighten me as to who and how the "pork" as you refer to it got tacked onto the SPLOST package. I'm interested although unless especially egregious, I doubt I will be inclined to change my mind about my vote.

Thanks Marc for being civil. I appreciate it.

It is really getting old when people constantly quote misinformation, as if by repeating it, it will suddenly become true. Based on the Sheriff's own numbers, which he presented to a recent County GOP meeting, the county is "outsourcing" 220 prisoners to surrounding counties at a cost of $35/day. However, that $35/day includes the cost of their meals. The county will still incur those meal costs even if all the prisoners are housed in our own jail. That means the real savings in bringing them home is only $16/day. That equates to $1.2M annually or $12M over ten years. Even if we doubled the "outsourced" prisoners tomorrow, the ten year cost would still be only $24M over ten years. A far cry from the $100 that the supporters of SPLOST keep throwing out there to make it look like a slam dunk! That $100M number has no basis in reality!

The county has already spent $7M for property that was supposed to be used to build the new jail. Now that plan has been dropped, and the BOC wants to spend millions more for a new piece of property! And the supporters call this responsible fiscal management and are happy to just sign on?

Also, this discussion about a Federal judge ordering Forsyth to build a new jail or the ACLU filing a lawsuit against the county or a prisoner escaping during transport and going on a killing spree is nothing more than despicable scare tactics meant to instill fear in people to motivate them to do what the Commissioners and the Mayor and the other supporters of SPLOST want to do...not what the people of the county want to do or what we need to do.

Gwinnett County.for one, does not have the jail near the courthouse, and they manage just fine with transporting their prisoners, as do countless other counties.

I asked for the study that has already been done according to Chairman Tam, on the possibility of expanding the courthouse. Basically, I was told to request it through the open records procedures. If the study actually says what it is purported to say, I would think the Commissioners would have it published in all the local media outlets and posted on the county web. Where's the transparency?

I greatly appreciate The Patch allowing differing points of view. But I think we all can disagree without the name calling. Besides, if you are trying to bring others around to your way of thinking, it actually turns (at least me ) people off. Opinion is great, facts help boaster those opinions , But even better are voices that express their views in a gentleman like manner, Back and forth differing views are what opens up a topic and allows better rounded thinking and actions. Just saying.