Moms Talk Q&A: Circumcision
This week's Moms Talk Q&A focuses on the controversial practice of circumcision.
Moms Talk Q&A is a forum designed to give hard-working parents a place to ask questions and have an open and honest discussion about the issues they face. You ask the questions and the Moms Council offers their answers.
This week's Moms Talk Q&A focuses on the controversial practice of circumcision.
You're in labor giving birth to your new bouncing baby boy. Emotions are high, and after a long and productive labor, you spend the better part of a day getting to know your son. The two of you are blissfully happy, then in comes a nurse jolting you back to reality with the question:
Q: Are you going to have your son circumcised?
A: With all four of my sons, within moments of knowing I was bringing a baby boy into our lives, I had the feeling in my belly of dread and anxiety over circumcision. I was pretty certain it had to be performed, but not knowing how it would affect my son was horrible.
Each time it was done, there were different protocols in place. Over the span of 14 years, the actual procedure was nearly identical, but the preparation of the baby was vastly different. Knowing what I know, I've compiled a few tips to help lessen the discomfort of your son (and his mommy!)
- If it can be done in the presence of the baby's parents, insist on being next to your baby to soothe him and hold him.
- Ask your pediatrician if it's possible to administer some pain medication (Tylenol) about an hour before the circumcision.
- Time it to where your baby will be able to nurse (or take a bottle) immediately following the procedure (most nurses will let you know their schedule ahead of time so you can plan your baby's feeding times).
- Depending on the current protocol in place, you will need to treat this area with antibiotic gel or something of the like, topped by a small square of gauze. Keeping the area protected from the diaper, and its contents will keep the baby comfortable after the circumcision is complete.
A: Well, not having sons, I have never had to wonder, but when I found out about both my pregnancies, the question came up for sure.
My husband, the naturalist, was completely against it. I was for it given my (few and far between) experiences working in a hospital and hearing horror stories of adult men who suffered the indignity of having it done as an emergency procedure. So there are a few considerations to keep in mind including: personal experience, religious affiliation and medical history.
The one point I would like to clarify is that circumcision should be discussed and decided upon prior to the day you give birth!
Camellia
10:15 am on Saturday, March 19, 2011
Circumcision is genital reduction surgery. As a Christian mother I knew I would not tamper with my children's bodies. The New Testament is clear that Christians should not circumcise (Titus 1:10-16.) The circumcision rate in American is now down to under 36% so the intact boy is now the majority. I have three intact sons who've never had any problems. My father and all the men in his family generations back have never had this surgery nor have they had any problems.
Marilyn Milos, RN
11:42 am on Saturday, March 19, 2011
Today's parents are saying "No" to circumcision because circumcision is a primal wound that interferes with the maternal/infant bond, disrupts breastfeeding and normal sleep patterns, and undermines the baby's first developmental task of establishing trust. Circumcision is painful for the baby even if analgesia is used, it leaves physical and psychological scars, and it denies the male's right to self-determination. CJ Fallier wrote in the Journal of the American Medical Association in 1970, "...the fundamental biological sexual act becomes, for the circumcised male, simply the satisfaction of an urge and not the refined sensory experience it was meant to be." Without the 20,000-100,000 specialized, erogenous nerve endings that encircle the opening of the foreskin, the #1 complaint of circumcised males is premature ejaculation. Then, without the foreskin's protective covering, the glans begins to lose sensitivity, then comes sexual dysfunction, and impotence often follows. It's no surprise we have such a high sales of Viagra in the USA. Circumcision also affects the partner, even if she doesn't realize it or understand how. Not one national or international medical organization in the world recommends circumcision, so it is not a medical issue. Circumcision is a human rights issue. Do parents have the right to consent to the amputation of a normal part of the their son's body or does that body belong to the baby? In truth, it's his body and it should be his choice!
Kyle
1:04 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
I wanted to address some points made by the Moms Council, the first being the recommendation to use Tylenol for pain relief during a circumcision. Circumcision is extremely painful, and Tylenol isn't strong enough for this operation. A study was conducted on this very subject in 1994 by Howard et al., and here's what they concluded:
"This study confirms that circumcision of the newborn causes severe and persistent pain. Acetaminophen was not found to ameliorate either the intra-operative or the immediate postoperative pain of circumcision, although it seems that it may provide some benefit after the postoperative period."
In the case of non-therapeutic neonatal circumcision, Tylenol is a placebo for parents, but it does little for babies. There are more effective types of pain relief available, but here's the best way to avoid causing your child any pain: don't perform unnecessary surgery on the most sensitive part of their body.
Kyle
1:18 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
Marilyn Wood mentioned a few things to keep in mind when considering circumcision, but there's another important point that wasn't mentioned: human rights. It is a well-recognized human rights violation to perform any type of genital modification on baby girls, yet parents can, for any reason, choose to have healthy and highly sensitive tissue amputated from a boy's penis - this is an unacceptable double standard. A parent should not have the right to choose such surgery for their child unless there is an immediate medical need. Leaving baby boys intact preserves their right to choose what their bodies will look like.
I have one more objection with what has been said about circumcision by the Moms Council, which is the idea that circumcising infants may save them "the indignity of having it done" as an adult. Even in the US, where circumcision is regularly performed without first trying less invasive forms of treatment, only a small percentage of men end up needing to be circumcised as adults. We can look to Scandinavian countries to see how often adult circumcision is really needed. In Finland, no infants are circumcised, and only 1 in 16,667 adults end up needing circumcision for medical reasons. Does it really make sense to circumcise a baby just in case he's one of the unlucky 0.006% of men that will actually need to be circumcised later?
Kristen Berry
2:35 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
Circumcision. I don't like it. However, saying it leaves psychological scars on infants is an astronomical assumption to make considering the majority of the American male population is circumcised, well-adjusted and quite content.
But no, I'm not of big fan of circumcision. Though I say that with a circumcision procedure at birth that happened so long ago for my son, it honestly doesn't matter now-And yes, I asked him if it matters, and got the classic eye-roll for questions not worthy of a response.
Perhaps circumcision is not such a massive disruption in the grand scheme of life after all.
Craig Ginsberg
9:13 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
There is TONS of psyc medical literature that addresses this. to dismiss it wold be deleterious.
these resources use only reputable publications.
http://knol.google.com/k/circumcision-and-human-behavior#
http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/
http://www.cirp.org/library/pain/
Marilyn Wood
4:28 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
Thank you to everyone for your insight, experience and knowledge. It has been very educational and informative to say the least. The statistics were fascinating.
Michelle Helms
4:52 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
I definitely don't like the procedure itself, as I have seen it done several times. But I will say that when my oldest son had it done 14 years ago, he didn't so much as make a peep! He had no pain whatsoever. He didn't cry at all. This was done in our pediatrician's office about 2 weeks after his birth. As for the other three boys, each hospital and pediatrician have their own protocol to follow, so it was four different experiences. If I were starting again with my first son... would I do it? I honestly don't know. But he has told me he's glad it's that way, most friends are circumcised, and he has had no complaints. I don't know about the study mentioned above regarding the effectiveness on tylenol, but I do plan to look for a more recent study. The tylenol did help, actually, and I'm glad my pediatrician recommended it.
All of that being said, I do agree that it interferes with the bonding right after birth, and there doesn't seem to be a way to make it less disruptive.
This is what I love about the mom's council and our readers, lots of good feedback and opinions. Thanks to all who gave us their point of view!
Kyle
6:10 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
I think that your experience is similar to that of many well-intentioned mothers in the US. You really don't like the procedure, but it just seems like something that has to be done, right? You've probably grown up around men who are circumcised, your doctors were probably neutral or supportive on the issue, and you may not have ever had a need to question it. Sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth here - correct me if I'm wrong.
In the case of neonatal circumcision, there's no immediate medical need for such surgery. It's basically non-reversible cosmetic surgery being performed on an infant, who of course didn't consent to it. As a society, I think we need to question this, and I'll provide some links for those looking to do so (nothing graphic, I promise).
Kyle
6:12 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
The foreskin, ridged band, and frenulum have many functions: http://www.enotalone.com/article/3509.html
Here's the most recent circumcision policy statement from a medical association: http://tinyurl.com/496ek8b
Information for parents about circumcision: http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/pregnancybabies/Circumcision.htm
Collection of circumcision links for parents: http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=4159
Cirp.org - information for parents: http://www.cirp.org/pages/parents/
50 reasons to leave "it" alone: http://tinyurl.com/4ajzjeo
*Fair warning: there are some very emotionally charged stories in the last two links*
Many mothers later regret circumcising their sons: http://tinyurl.com/4puzneq
A growing number of men are angry about being circumcised as infants, and wish they'd be given a choice: http://tinyurl.com/4ogk2gq
Julieanne
5:47 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
There are no nerve endings in the foreskin. If a doctor,surgeon ,or pediatrician has cut enough that a baby is in pain then it has been done wrong. It actually can prevent penile cancer,cervical cancer,HIV,and various bacterial and fungus related issues. I often wonder if the women so against it are married to uncircumcised men. Grass is always greener. The facts that have come up especially recently should not be over looked.
Lauren Stone
8:05 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
Statements like these are not only completely lacking in knowledge but are dangerous. Someone might read such a sentiment and actually believe it's true. This could be no further from the truth. That's saying the clitoris has no nerve endings or the fingertips have no nerve endings. LOGIC and just a tad of accurate information go along way. The foreskin has a minimum of 20,000 nerve endings. More than twice that of the clitoris.
http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/
www.nocirc.org
http://www.thewholenetwork.org/
http://www.intactamerica.org/
Lauren Stone
8:36 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
This is what neonatal circumcision looks like; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=013PdUzvWpo
Craig Ginsberg
9:14 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
I discuss these in detail on this website intactipedia.org
no medical organization takes any of these claims seriously except HIV.
Craig Ginsberg
9:14 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
HIV
Of all the accusations leveled against the human foreskin none warrant a closer examination then HIV. In order to defend the circumcision industry from its now eminent decline, circumcision advocates have sought to manipulate our fears of a slow and plain-full HIV/AIDS related death.
Lower socioeconomic minorities are more often intact and usually have a greater number of sexual partners. Most men who have contracted HIV are suffering the consequences for a life time of poor decision making. In the U.S. HIV is often always contracted by homosexuals who have engaged in promiscuous activity, and/or men who have engaged in a life time of drug use and promiscuous sexual activity. Besides, children born to day will likely have and HIV vaccinate available by the time thy are sexually active adults.
All studies have repeatedly shown that number of sexual partners generates the biggest increase in STD infection risk. Therefore comparing a circumcised upper class and an intact lower class or comparing circumcised African Muslims to intact African Non-Muslims, is inapplicable because of the significant difference in hygienic and sexual behavior which affect the results far more then circumcision status which in turn is also related to tribal affiliation. Therefore the rates of exposure for each group within their separate communities is a co-founding factor.
Craig Ginsberg
9:14 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
Studies performed in Africa could never be extrapolated to populations in the U.S., because of the drastically different culture. Pro-circumcision “studies” taken from rural Africa routinely and deliberately neglect these plain and obvious flaws during their data mining operations in rural Africa. Viral load is often a co-founding factor that is not controlled for. Viral load has been suggested to drastically increases HIV infection risk(1)
It is also very important to note that Langerhans cells that are present in the foreskin produce Langerin, a substance that has been proven to kill the HIV virus on contact.(2) Pro-circumcision advocates claim that Langer cells allow for the entry of the HIV virus, however Langerhans cells exist though out all the skin of the penis therefore it would not be logical to remove all the skin of the penis to prevent HIV.
Craig Ginsberg
9:15 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
Many observational studies use participants who have life styles that are not representative of average Americans or Africans. There have been many studies on long distance truck drivers in Africa(3). Some of these truck drivers engage in risky sexual activity with prostitutes at trucks stops. These are not indicative of your typical life style. Should you surgically alter your son based on the poor decisions of long distance truck drivers in Kenya?
Yet, time and time again, researchers who actually value science have sought to correct these flawed assessments. For every study that claims a benefit there is another, if not more studies that found no benefit.
A 1999 meta-analysis on HIV concluded :
“...on the 29 published articles where data were available. When the raw data are combined, a man with a circumcised penis is at greater risk of acquiring and transmitting HIV than a man with a non-circumcised penis [...]Based on the studies published to date, recommending routine circumcision as a prophylactic measure to prevent HIV infection in Africa, or elsewhere, is scientifically unfounded."(4)
Craig Ginsberg
9:17 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
Since homosexuals are one of the biggest proliferators of HIV in the U.S. it is important to determine what effect HIV has on the homosexual transmission of HIV.
A 2008 meta-analysis of 15 observational studies, including 53,567 gay and bisexual men from the United States, Britain, Canada, Australia, India, Taiwan, Peru and the Netherlands (52% circumcised), stated that the rate of HIV infection was non-significantly lower among men who were circumcised compared with those who were uncircumcised.(5)
Craig Ginsberg
9:24 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
The flaws with these new Randomized “Controlled” Trials (RCT).
Why go to Kenya(6), Uganda(7), and Sub-Saharan Africa(8) to perform randomized “controlled” trials(RCTs) on circumcision and HIV? These are some of the only countries in Africa where circumcised communities have a lower prevalence of HIV(9). Hard-line circumcision advocates with and known bias, know this, and they often exploit the cultural differences in these communities that cause intact communities to acquire HIV more often. This is how they are mining the data they need to promote their agenda. After receiving criticism for observational studies circumcision advocates have sought to use these randomized controlled trials in order to control for the cross-cultural differences that studies in these places have been criticized for in the past. However there are still obvious flaws in methodology that can not be denied. Here are just some of the variables that where not controlled for in many studies used to claim that circumcision prevents HIV, and specifically in the RCT’s .
1)The time needed for healing for those circumcised before the trial was initiated means less exposure time. Circumcision is a serious injury, men who have just been circumcised can not be expected to continue normal sexual behavior during the trial. Behavior always effects your risk by many orders of magnitude more then circumcision ever could.
Craig Ginsberg
9:24 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
2)Dry sex is A practice that is common in many of these communities. It entails drying the vagina with dirt, sand, dried leaves, corn meal, or powders to absorb lubrication. This practice is unsanitary and causes lesions and other entry points that increase risk for STD transmission.(10)
3)Genital warts and ulcers re-occurrence, how they were treated, the final efficacy of that particular treatment (Excision or chemical). And the irresponsible sexual behavior on both men(11) and prostitutes while afflicted with genital ulcer disease(GID)(12). GUD is an endemic in parts of Africa.
4)One U.S. study showed that circumcised men were more likely to engage in riskier and "more highly elaborated" sexual practices including anal sex, and sex with multiple partners(13). These factors may not come into play for an intervention group immediately after circumcision. This also shows that sexual behaviors for those circumcised as infants may not reflect sexual behaviors of those circumcised as adults. Therefore results determined in circumcising an intervention group are not applicable to men circumcised as infants.
5)Female circumcision: where male circumcision exists female circumcision usually exists as well.
6)Anal sex
7)Homosexual sex
8)The accuracy of the tests to determine rates of false or negative determinations
9)The time needed to manifest all seroconversions
Craig Ginsberg
9:25 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
10)In the case of these new RCT’s any chance of a follow-up was lost because the test was stopped early and all subjects were circumcised.
11)Equal amount of "safe-sex counseling" for both groups
Some of these new short term studies, determined that circumcised significantly less likely to acquire HIV then genitally intact men. This does not mean this benefit exists in the real world. Repeat exposure to partners with HIV will eventually lead to the acquisition of HIV. If the real world reduction was significant we would see a significant difference among intact and circumcised populations, when in reality we do not see any clear association. The conductors of these studies took a quick snap shot of the data before the results turned on them and then circumcised all study participates so that a follow-up survey could not be performed.
Craig Ginsberg
9:25 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
If they tried to present this to any reputable organization who wished to maintain scientific integrity, they would be laughed out of the room, as they have. Attributing the results of their tests to anatomically correct male genitalia is not only ludicrous but plainly irrepressible. What we have here are “studies” performed in an abstracted theoretical situation. This theoretical situation is unrealistic and does not represent real world situations. In the real world people are sexually active for more then twelve or twenty months of their life. In the real world people would not wear a condom that is only marginally effective. The only thing that can prevent HIV is safe sex or abstinence.
A recent study performed by researchers without any declared conflicts of interest concluded.
"Circumcision status was not associated with HIV/HSV-2 infection nor increased high risk sexual behaviors. In males, preference for being or becoming circumcised was associated with inconsistent condom use and increased lifetime number of sexual partners." (14)
This study also reveals the moral hazard this circumcision campaign has created in Africa. People may mistakenly assume circumcised men are immune to HIV infection, therefore validating reckless sexual behavior. In any event condoms have proven to be far more efficacious then circumcision could ever be.
Craig Ginsberg
9:44 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
What about male to female HIV transmission?
“ there is consistent evidence that female-to-male HIV transmission, compared with male-to-female transmission, is much higher in Europe than in the USA ...Data from the European Multicenter Partners Study and comparable research from the USA suggest that the ratio of female-to-male transmission (compared with male to female transmission) is about 10 fold higher in Europe.”(15)
Why not perform controlled short term trials to find how circumcision affects male to female transmission? If such studies where performed researchers may not find what it is they are looking for.
The U.S. Is the only western nation with a large number active circumcised males. The prevalence of circumcision in the U.S. could possibly explain why the male to female transmission of HIV is so high. This could explain why the United States has the highest rate of HIV in the developed world, even higher then many third world nations!(16)
Craig Ginsberg
9:45 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
A Randomized controlled trial in Uganda was performed to test the HIV transmission to female partners of circumcised men. The found:
"17 (18%) women in the intervention group and eight (12%) women in the control group acquired HIV during follow-up (p=0·36)"(17)
Women of circumcised partners where 50% more likely to contract HIV! This may be due to the lack of the mobile foreskin and its self lubricating function during intercourse. Without the foreskin, abrasive sex can open up micro fissures In the vaginal wall and may allow the HIV virus an easy entry target. Vaginal abrasion has already been shown to increase HIV infection risk via “dry sex”(10). This study has met criticism as it was performed by researches with a proven bias and a noted conflict of interest. The study was ended early because of “futility” and before a statical value known as p could warrant accurate results. One ought to suspect that it was deemed futile because the results were not what researchers wanted. In any event there are several other studies and publications that suggest the same result which have not met the same criticism.
“partner circumcision ... remained strongly associated with HIV-1 infection even when simultaneously controlling for other covariates”(18)
Craig Ginsberg
9:45 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
“Male circumcision may in fact worsen the epidemic. It is imperative, therefore, that further studies be conducted to determine the overall effect before implementing mass circumcision campaigns to control HIV infection.” (19)
(1)Gray RH, Wawer MJ, Sewankambo NK, et al. Relative risks and population attributable fraction of incident HIV associated with symptoms of sexually transmitted diseases and treatable symptomatic sexually transmitted diseases in Rakai District, Uganda. Rakai Project Team. AIDS 1999;13(15):2113-23.
Quinn TC, Wawer MJ, Sewankambo N, et al, for the Rakai Project Study Group. Viral load and heterosexual transmission of human immunodefficiency virus type 1. N Engl J Med 2000; 342: 921-29.
(2)de Witte L, Nabatov A, Pion M, et al. Langerin is a natural barrier to HIV-1 transmission by Langerhans cells. Nat Med 2007 (Published on line ahead of print March 4).
Craig Ginsberg
9:46 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
(3) Rakwar J, Lavreys L, Thompson M L. et al Cofactors for the acquisition of HIV‐1 among heterosexual men: prospective cohort study of trucking company workers in Kenya. AIDS 1999. 13607–614.
Manjunath J V, Thappa D M, Jaisankar T J. Sexually transmitted diseases and sexual lifestyles of long‐distance truck drivers: a clinico‐epidemiologic study in south India. Int J STD AIDS 2002. 13612–617.
Lavreys L, Rakwar J P, Thompson M L. et al Effect of circumcision on incidence of human immunodeficiency virus type 1 and other sexually transmitted diseases: a prospective cohort study of trucking company employees in Kenya. J Infect Dis 1999. 180330–336.
Bwayo J, Plummer F, Omari M. et al Human immunodeficiency virus infection in long‐distance truck drivers in east Africa. Arch Intern Med 1994. 1541391–1396.
(4)Van Howe, R.S. (January 1999). "Circumcision and HIV infection: review of the literature and meta-analysis". International Journal of STD's and AIDS 10: 8–16. doi:10.1258/0956462991913015. http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/HIV/vanhowe4/. Retrieved 2008-09-23.
(5)Millett GA, Flores SA, Marks G, Reed JB, Herbst JH (October 2008). "Circumcision status and risk of HIV and sexually transmitted infections among men who have sex with men: a meta-analysis". JAMA 300 (14): 1674–84. doi:10.1001/jama.300.14.1674. PMID 18840841. http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/300/14/1674.
Craig Ginsberg
9:46 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
(6)Bailey RC, Moses S, Parker CB, et al. Male circumcision for HIV prevention in young men in Kisumu, Kenya: a randomised controlled trial. Lancet. 2007 Feb 24;369(9562):643-56.
(7)Gray RH, Kigozi G, Serwadda D, et al. Male circumcision for HIV prevention in men in Rakai, Uganda: a randomised trial. Lancet. 2007 Feb 24;369(9562):657-66.
(8)Auvert B, Taljaard D, Lagarde E, Sobngwi- Tambekou J, Sitta R, Puren A. Randomized, controlled intervention trial of male circumcision for reduction of HIV infection risk: the ANRS 1265 Trial. PLoS Med. 2005 Nov;2(11):e298. Erratum in: PLoS Med. 2006 May;3(5):e298.
(9)Vinod Mishra, Rathavuth Hong, and Yuan Gu, and Amy Medley and Bryant Robe . Levels and spread of HIV seroprevalence and associates factors: evidence form national household surveys. USAID 2009 Feb; 51-53
Craig Ginsberg
9:46 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
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Craig Ginsberg
9:47 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
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Mann JM, Nzilambi N, Piot P, et al. HIV infection and asso-ciated risk factors in femalesocal concerns prostitutes in Kinshasa, Zaire. AIDS 1988;2:249–54.
Irwin K, Mibandumba N, Mbuyi K, et al. More on vaginal inflammation in Africa. N Engl J Med 1993;328:888–9.
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Craig Ginsberg
9:48 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
Jinju M, St Louis ME, Mbuyi K, et al. Risk factors for heterosexual HIV transmission: a case-control study among married couples concordant and discordant for HIV-1 infection. Int Conf AIDS in Africa. Dakar, December 1991 (abstract no TO 105).
(11) Peoin J, Quigley M, Todd J, Gaye I, Janneh M Van DyckE, Piot,P, Whittle H. Association between HIV-2 infection and genital ulcer diseases among male sexually transmitted diseases patients in the Gambia. AIDS 1992 May;6(5):489-93.
O’Farrell N, Hoosen AA, Coetzee KD, van den Ende J. Sexual behavior in Zulu men and women with genial ulcer disease. Genitourin Med 1992 Aug;68(4):245-8.
De Vincenzi I Mertens T. Male circumcision: a role in HIV prevention? AIDS 1994 Feb;8(2)
(12)Kaul R, kimani J, Nagelkerke NJ, Plummer FA, Bwayo JJ, Brunham RC, Ngugi EN, Ronald A. Risk factors for genital ulcerations in Kenyan sex workers: the role of human immunodeficiency virus type 1 infection. Sex Transm Dis 1997 Aug;24(7):387-92
(13)Laumann EO, Masi CM, Zuckerman EW. Circumcision in the United States: prevalence, prophylactic effects, and sexual practice. JAMA 1997;277:1052-7.
(14)Westercamp M, Bailey RC, Bukusi EA, Montandon M, Kwena Z, et al. (2010) Male Circumcision in the General Population of Kisumu, Kenya: Beliefs about Protection, Risk Behaviors, HIV, and STIs. PLoS ONE 5(12): e15552. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0015552 http://tinyurl.com/4tmaal8
(15) De Vincenzi I. Heterosexual transmission of HIV. JAMA 1992; 267: 1919.
Craig Ginsberg
9:48 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
(16) Report on the Global HIV/AIDS Endemic. June 2000 UNAIDS, Geneva, 2000, pp. 124-132
(17)Circumcision in HIV-infected men and its effect on HIV transmission to female partners in Rakai, Uganda: a randomized controlled trial. The Lancet, Volume 374, Issue 9685, Pages 229 - 237, 18 July 2009
(18)Chao A, Bulterys M, Musanganire F, Habimana P, Nawrocki P, et al. Risk factors associated with prevalent HIV-1 infection among pregnant women in Rwanda. National University of Rwanda-Johns Hopkins University AIDS Research Team. Int J Epidemiol. 1994;23:371–380.
(19)Jonathan Sykes. Male Circumcision Increases Risk for Females PLoS Med. 2006 January; 3(1): e72. Published online 2006 January 31. doi: 10.1371/journal.pmed.0030072. PMCID: PMC1360646
Craig Ginsberg
9:58 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
"There are no nerve endings in the foreskin" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. OMFG .
thats a good one
Specialized nerve receptors in the foreskin
The enervation of the foreskin is impressive (17). Genitally intact males know from personal experience that the foreskin is one of the most sensitive parts of the body. Consequently, for over a century, some of the most respected names in medical science have turned their attention to this part of the body. Anatomists have transformed their inner knowledge into careful scientific observation about the complex enervation of the foreskin
As the most richly innervated part of the penis, the foreskin has the largest number of nerve receptors, as well as the greatest variety of nerve receptors. These specialized nerve ending include Meissner's corpuscles(18), free nerve endings, end bulbs of Krause(19), Corpuscles of Ruffini(20), Pacinian corpuscles(21), genital and bulbs(22) Genital bodies(23), Merkels disks, Golgi-Mazzoni corpuscles(24), and Vater-Pacinian corpuscles(25). These remarkable organs provide the foreskin with its amazing ability to detect the slightest sensations of touch, motion, temperature, and pressure. We are still unaware of all the facts about these fascinating structures. Future research may discover even more nerve receptors in the foreskin and help clarify what purposes they serve.
Craig Ginsberg
9:59 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
Erogenous zones of the foreskin
The foreskin is what's known as a specific erogenous zone (26). This means that it is richly equipped with a high density and concentration of specialized and sophisticated nerve receptors that convey pressure. The only other specific erogenous zones on the male body are the conjunctiva of the eye, lips, nipples, perianal skin, and the head of the penis. The presence of specialized erogenous nerve receptors makes this part of the body especially important.
The primary zones of erogenous sensitivity are the frenulum, ridged mucosa, and the preputial orifice and the external fold of the foreskin. All of these zones are orgasmic triggers. Continuous gentle stimulation of any one of these areas can elicit pleasure, orgasm, and ejaculation.
Craig Ginsberg
9:59 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
How the glans compares with the foreskin
Most people are surprised to learn that the glans penis is one of the least sensitive parts of the entire body (27). Obviously, this news may be worrying for circumcised males. The glans is insensitive to light touch, heat, cold, and even pinpricks, as researches at the Department of Pathology in the Health Scientists center at the University of Manitoba discovered (28). The corona of the glans contains scattered free nerve endings, genital end bulbs, and pacinian corpuscles, which transmit sensations of pain and deep pressure. The glans is nearly incapable of detecting light touch.
The nerve receptors of the corona are designed to be stimulated through the medium of the foreskin. Direct stimulation of the glands of the intact penis is most pleasant with the stimulus mimics the moist, massaging action of the foreskin.
The Moving ring of pressure created by the lips of the foreskin and ridged mucosa stimulate the nerve receptors in the rim of the glands. While pleasurable stimulation of the frenulum and ridged mucosa is instantly perceived, sensation of the corona is slow and gradual. When fully stimulated the erotic sensations felt in the corona are perceived as having a slow, warm, and rich quality. As nice at this is, it hardly compares to the erotic sensations generated by the foreskin. Circumcised males have been robbed of a normal level of sexual sensation
Craig Ginsberg
10:00 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
. Just as a person whose lips where amputated could can never really appreciate the sensations that lips convey, so a circumcised male can never under stand what his intact friends experience. This helps explain why some circumcised males defend circumcision so vehemently. They have no idea what was taken from them and are psychologically unprepared to deal with their loss.
In order to confirm all of this information, a most recent study in 2007 physically measured the sensitivity of all the parts of the penis. They used a very accurate pressure sensing probe while the test subject, who’s view was blocked with a screen, registered a sensation of touch. To demonstrate precision they took each measurement multiple times. Statistically, their results where very consistent. To no surprise, their results corroborated with the nero-anatomy that has been discussed previously.
"Five locations on the uncircumcised penis that are routinely removed at circumcision were more sensitive than the most sensitive location on the circumcised penis[...] The glans in the circumcised male is less sensitive to fine-touch pressure than the glans of the uncircumcised male[...]The most sensitive location on the circumcised penis is the circumcision scar on the ventral surface [...] When compared to the most sensitive area of the circumcised penis, several locations on the uncircumcised penis that are missing from the circumcised penis were significantly more sensitive. "(29)
Craig Ginsberg
10:00 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
(17) Moldwin RM, Valderrama E. Immunohistochemical analysis of nerve distribution patterns within preputial tissues. J Urol 1989 Apr;141(4):499A. (abstract)
(18) Taylor JR, Lockwood AP, Taylor AJ. The prepuce: specialized musocsa of the penis and its loss to circumcision. Br J Urol 1996 Feb;77(2): 291-5
(19) Dogiel AS. Die Nervenendigungen in der Haut der ausseren Genitalorgane des Menschen. Archiv fur Mikroskopische Anatomie 1893:41:585-612
Bazett HC, McGlone B, Williams RG, Lufkin HM. Depth, distribution and probable identification in the prepuce of sensory end-organs concerned in sensations of temperature and touch; thermometric conductivity. Archives of Neurology and psychiatry 1932 Mar; 27(3):489-517
(20)Bazett HC, McGlone B, Williams RG, Lufkin HM. Depth, distribution and probable identification in the prepuce of sensory end-organs concerned in sensations of temperature and touch; thermometric conductivity. Archives of Neurology and psychiatry 1932 Mar; 27(3):489-517
(21) Ohmori D. Uber die Entwicklung der Innervation der Genitalapparate als peripheren Aufnahmeapperat der Genitalen Reflexe. Zeitschrift fur Anatomie und Entwicklungsgeschichte 1924;70(1):347-410.
(22)Halata Z, Munger BL. The neuroanatomical basis for the protopathic sensibility og the human glans penis. Brain Res 1986 Apr23;371(2):205-30.
Craig Ginsberg
10:01 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
(23)Ohmori D. Uber die Entwicklung der Innervation der Genitalapparate als peripheren Aufnahmeapperat der Genitalen Reflexe. Zeitschrift fur Anatomie und Entwicklungsgeschichte 1924;70(1):347-410.
(24)Ohmori D. Uber die Entwicklung der Innervation der Genitalapparate als peripheren Aufnahmeapperat der Genitalen Reflexe. Zeitschrift fur Anatomie und Entwicklungsgeschichte 1924;70(1):347-410.
(25)Winkelmann RK. The Cutaneous Innervation of the human newborn prepuce. Invest Dermatol 1956 Jan;26(1):53-67
(26)Winkelmann RK. The erogenous zones: their nerve supply and its significance. Proceedings of the staff meetings of the Mayo Clinic 1959 Jan21(2):39-47
(27)Halata Z, Munger BL. The Neuroanatomical basis for the protopathic sensibility of the human glands penis. Brain res 1986 Apr 23;371(2):205-30.
(28)Taylor JR, Lockwood AP, Taylor AJ. The prepuce: specialized musocsa of the penis and its loss to circumcision. Br J Urol 1996 Feb;77(2): 291-5
(29)Morris L. Sorrells, James L. Snyder. Fine-touch pressure thresholds in the adult penis . BJU 2006 Oct:22, pp. 864-869
Craig Ginsberg
10:02 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
The results of a fascinating study conducted by Dr. Christopher Cold and Dr. Kenneth A. McGrath demonstrate that the human foreskin in an evolutionary advancement over the foreskins of other primates. The human foreskin is far more sophisticated and responsive, as their comparative anatomy studies prove. This is seen most clearly in the evolutionary increase in corpuscular innervation and simultaneous decrease in corpuscular receptors in the human glans relative to the innervation of the foreskin and glands of lower primates (30). In other words, in monkeys and apes, the glans is more sensitive then the foreskin. In humans, this is reversed, so that the foreskin is more sensitive then the glands. If the foreskin where "vestigial", this advancement would have never taken place and the human foreskin would be either equally or less sensitive then the ape foreskin.
(30)Cold CJ, McGrath KA. Anatomy and histology of the penile and clitoral prepuce in primates: an evolutionary perspective of the specializes sensory tissue of the external genitalia. In: Denniston GC, Hoges MF, Milos FM (eds). Male and female circumcision: Medical, Legal, and Ethical Considerations in Pediatric Practice. New York: Kluwer Academic/Plenum Publishers, 1999. pp. 19-29
Cyn
10:15 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
Pretty much EVERYTHING Julieanne said is wrong:
"There are no nerve endings in the foreskin. If a doctor,surgeon ,or pediatrician has cut enough that a baby is in pain then it has been done wrong."
This sounds like the myth doctors used to believe that newborns down feel pain. It is absolutely, NOT TRUE that there are no nerve ending in the foreskin. The foreskin is *loaded* with thousands of sensory nerve endings. Not only does it HURT when it's cut off, but the lack of foreskin also deprives the man of the sensory pleasure provided by foreskin.
"It actually can prevent penile cancer,cervical cancer,HIV,and various bacterial and fungus related issues."
Wrong. Foreskin actually provides protection.
http://intactipedia.org/index.php?title=Immunological_and_Protective_Function_of_the_Foreskin
Penile cancer is more rare than male breast cancer. It's even more rare than vulvar cancer. Cervical cancer is caused by HPV, not foreskin. HIV is caused by risky sex practices, not foreskin. In the U.S., where babies are routinely mutilated, our rates of HIV/STDs, etc. are actually HIGHER than in countries where babies aren't cut.
"I often wonder if the women so against it are married to uncircumcised men. "
Unlike many ignorant American women, female intactivists aren't so superficial as to judge a man by the state of his penis alone.
"The facts that have come up especially recently should not be over looked."
These 'facts' you speak of have been debunked in various ways.
Jen
6:06 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
When a mother says that the most sensitive part of her son's penis was first ripped off the glans (the entire foreskin is fused like a nail to the nail bed) then clamped and amputated, with no pain, I question whether that mother was even there. It is common for infants go into a state of shock due to the trauma but be certain that regardless of the type of operation the foreskin must be torn from the glans first and this in itself is extraordinarily painful. Tylenol wouldn't even take the edge off. ELMA cream would be like using orajel before getting a tooth drilled, and a dorsal nerve block has been shown ineffective. A ring block could numb the area but requires at least 4 punctures to the base of the penis, which IS painful. I encourage these mothers to go to a bathroom and take a pin/razor and prick their clitoral hood. That will just be a small glimpse of what an infant feels since they feel pain more acutely. For the poster who posted that there are no nerve endings in the foreskin, you need to go take an anatomy class! There are over 20,000 nerve endings in the male foreskin as compared to only 8,000 in the female clitoris. You clearly haven't owned one or seen one in person since the vast network of blood flow throughout the structure and specialized cell composition is obvious. Just ask my son or my husband!
Rest assured that most intact men will never need a circumcision. Less than 2% of intact men will ever need a circ, the same for women.
Michelle Helms
7:27 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
As the mother who did in fact watch it being done painlessly, I will tell you this. He received an ointment of some kind (don't remember the name, it was long ago) and then an injection. Both of these procedures took place on fleshy part of the body right above the pubic region. The pediatrician then took a metal apparatus and measured it around the penis, and after doing this made a very small lateral incision. It took all of about 20 seconds.
And I doubt this is like having a nail removed, because a nail doesn't later retract from the nail bed after puberty. But maybe we were just lucky this first time. I can tell you that the second experience was horrible and done completely differently, but was done because the first circumcision went so well. Third and fourth circs were smooth like the first, but I was a nervous wreck for months before.
Kyle, yes you hit the nail right on the head. I was 23 years old and really thought I was doing the right thing, or at least the acceptable thing. And I just want to mention that in 1997 the internet was young and didn't have the endless information that we have today. (Well, even if there was good information, it took hours to access it on dial up.) Its refreshing to see all of these opinions, I wish I had access to them back then. Great links by the way! I hope you will weigh in more often in our "Mom's Talk."
Cyn
10:16 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
"And I doubt this is like having a nail removed, because a nail doesn't later retract "
It is like having a nail removed because at the time infant circumcision is performed, the foreskin is still adhered to the head of the penis.
Lauren Stone
7:46 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
I am the Mother of one circumcised son and one intact son. Knowing what I know, I've compiled a few tips to help lessen the discomfort of your son (and his mommy!) LEAVE YOUR SON'S PENIS ALONE! It's HIS body. It's HIS choice. Circumcision is painful, dangerous (babies DIE from genital cutting), it violates the child's rights, it is COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY.
http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/
www.nocirc.org
http://www.thewholenetwork.org/
http://www.intactamerica.org/
www.drmomma.org/2011/02/letter-to-my-son.html
Bob
8:37 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
Male infant circumcision has many great benefits that parents should consider. Benefits of circumcision include reduced risk of STD infections - 28% for herpes, 35% for HPV & 60% for HIV / AIDS, 12x less likely for UTI and +22x less likely for cancer.
More facts about circumcision can be found at the following sites:
http://j.mp/4qjDft (Mayo Clinic)
http://j.mp/3WuSND (FamilyDoctor.org)
http://j.mp/SGumR (CDC)
http://j.mp/19tNAV (MediCirc)
http://j.mp/KX0KG (WHO/UNAIDS)
http://j.mp/iQZbx (CircInfo)
Craig Ginsberg
8:49 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
False. all these claims have been thoroughly discredited, visit my web site at intactipeida.org.
Hugh7
8:58 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
The trouble with all those "benefits" - where they exist at all - is that they are really minor in the bigger picture; slight reductions of rare diseases, such that dozens or even hundreds or thousands of circumcisions would be wasted to prevent one instance, often of something that can be readily treated if and when it occurs.
These "benefits" only appeal to people who really, really, want to circumcise already, for reasons that have nothing to do with health. One example, so bad it's funny, is Bob's circinfo, the personal webpage of an Australian professor of molecular biology who's never seen a reason for circumcising he didn't like, up to and including "to prevent bathroom splatter" and "to prevent zipper injury" and who spins statistics faster than a dentist's drill. (He turns FIVE intact boys with recurrent UTIS out of 75,000 children into "19% percent of boys"!) Fortunately a small spelling correction is all you need: http://www.circinfo.org There. Fixed!
Craig Ginsberg
8:51 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
Physical integrity and the fundamental right to ones own body, is a right that was repeatedly violated with the implementation of mass industrialized, non-consenting, non-therapeutic male infant circumcision in the Unites States. A wide range of surgical complications occur in 2-10% of the cases.(1) Since there are approximately 120 million circumcised men in the United States today, it stands to reason that there are millions of men who suffer daily from the effects of these botched circumcisions. Perhaps worst of all, more then 117(2) to 230(3) infants in the U.S. die from circumcision every year.
Many Americans are surprised to hear that circumcision (the surgical removal of the foreskin) is uncommon in the western world. Foreigners are often shocked when they first hear that the practice of circumcision even exists in the United States. Circumcision was first introduced in the United States by an anti-sexual Victorian initiative which began during the 1830’s. Numerous publications from the 1830’s to times even as late as the 1970’s had advocated for circumcision as a means to prevent masturbation, and to permanently desensitize, denude, and immobilize the penis.(4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14)
Craig Ginsberg
8:51 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
Circumcision advocates quickly moved on to manufacture a number of outrageous health claims. These claims were tailored to the fears and anxieties of the day. Circumcision has been claimed to cure epilepsy, convulsions, paralysis, elephantiasis, tuberculosis, eczema, bed-wetting, hip-joint disease, fecal incontinence, rectal prolapse, wet dreams, hernia, headaches, nervousness, hysteria, poor eyesight, idiocy, mental retardation, insanity, strabismus, hydrocephalus, clubfoot, cancer, STD’s, UTI’s, ect.(15) Doctors were eager to claim that they could prevent and cure many of these aliments,conditions and diseases because there were no treatments available then. Even though all of these claims have been throughly discredited, circumcision has remained a solution in search of a problem ever since. Many Americans are surprised to find out that female genital cutting (FGC) shares a strikingly similar history in the United States.(7,16,17,18,19,20,21) FGC was even covered by Blue Cross Blue Shield until 1977. Nowadays, many forms of FGC are now considered forms of female genital mutilation (FGM), which are banned in all western countries.
Craig Ginsberg
8:52 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
Perhaps the most shocking fact is that circumcision continues to be practiced in the United States even though no official western medical organization in the world recommends it. The Royal Dutch Medical Society, The British Medical Association, the Canadian Pediatric Society, and the Royal Australian College of Physicians have all made official policy statements against circumcision. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Medical Association, the American Academy of Family Physicians, and the American Urological Association all do not recommend circumcision, and are also in agreement that there are no proven benefits.
Craig Ginsberg
8:52 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
For some reason this information is not making it to parents. Studies have shown that doctors provide parents with almost no accurate or useful information about circumcision. One study showed that 40% of parents believed that their doctors failed to provide enough information, 46% reported that their doctors failed to give them any medical information at all, and 82.8% of parents regretted their decision they made within the first six months of their son’s life.(22) Another study found that physicians were less likely to circumcise their own sons.(23) This suggests that doctors are very well aware that circumcision is a non-therapeutic surgery (in short, a ritual); but they do not appear to share this knowledge with parents. A busy physician can supplement their income by as much as $60,000 per year from circumcision surgeries alone.(24) This incentive can cloud a physician’s judgment when it comes to providing parents with information about circumcision.
Craig Ginsberg
8:52 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
Many parents are surprised to hear that anesthetics are used in only a minority of cases.(25) The use of local anesthetics significantly drives up the costs of surgery. When anesthetics are used, they can only reduce the pain. Infants can not be given general anesthesia because of the medical risks involved. In the recent past, anesthesia was rarely used, if ever. Because of this, circumcision has always been an extremely traumatizing experience causing an array of short and long term behavioral and developmental problems (26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35), including altered perceptions of pain(36,37,38), post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)(39,40,41,42), and a possibly of adult self destructive behavior(43,44,45). Many circumcised men, some of whom are doctors, experience a strong denial of loss which in turn fuels an emotional compulsion to repeat the trauma to normalize their loss.(46,47,48,49,50)
Craig Ginsberg
8:53 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
What is the foreskin? is a question that many Americans would have trouble answering. Information about the foreskin is virtually absent during discussions of anatomy in biology classrooms, and yet, the foreskin provides a well-documented set of crucial sensory, protective, immunological, hygienic, and sexual functions. The foreskin is a double fold of skin that is twice as big as its appearance. It can make up to 80% or more of the penile skin covering, and includes around 12-20 square inches of skin (the size of a 3x4 or a 4x5 index card!)(51,52), and in turn includes a specialized sheet of dartos muscle(53)
One of the functions of this mobile skin system is to glide up and down the shaft of the penis in order to facilitate non-abrasive stimulation during sexual activity without any need for artificial factory made lubricant. This frictionless gliding mechanism is the principal source of stimulation for the intact penis and facilitates non-abrasive intercourse.(54)
Craig Ginsberg
8:53 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
The neuro-anatomy of the penis has been rigorously studied by respected anatomists of all kinds. The component tissues that comprise the foreskin are richly innervated with the greatest quantity and variety of sensory nerve endings than any other part of the penis; the foreskin can discern the slightest pressure, the lightest tough, the smallest motion, the subtlest changes in temperature, and the finest gradations in texture.(52,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,62) Many people are surprised to discover that the glans or “head” of the penis is actually the least sensitive part and is insensitive to light tough, heat, cold and even pin-pricks.(52,61,62) Permanent unnatural exposure of the penis further desensitizes the glans, the foreskin keeps the glands healthy, clean, shiny, warm, soft, moist, and sensitive; with out the foreskin the glans are scared, dry, cracked, and pitted. Most notably, circumcision drastically reduces the glans sensitivity to vibration.(63)
Craig Ginsberg
8:54 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
To no surprise, this information was corroborated in a 2006 study which measured the sensitivity of all the parts of the penis. Researchers used an extremely sensitive pressure sensing probe while each test subject, whose view was blocked with a screen, reported a sensation of touch. To demonstrate precision they took each measurement multiple times. The results were statistically consistent. They concluded:
"Five locations on the uncircumcised penis that are routinely removed at circumcision were more sensitive than the most sensitive location on the circumcised penis[...] The glans in the circumcised male is less sensitive to fine-touch pressure than the glans of the uncircumcised male[...]The most sensitive location on the circumcised penis is the circumcision scar on the ventral surface [...] When compared to the most sensitive area of the circumcised penis, several locations on the uncircumcised penis that are missing from the circumcised penis were significantly more sensitive."(62)
Craig Ginsberg
8:54 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
The foreskin, like the eyelid, also serves an important set of protective and immunological functions. The foreskin protects the delicate glans of the penis and puts the urethra at a distance form its environment protecting it from foreign contaminants of all kinds. While simultaneously shielding the penis from injury. The foreskins inner fold and the glans of the penis are comprised of mucous membrane tissue. These are also present in your eyes, mouth, and all other bodily orifices including the female genitals. These mucous membranes perform many immunological and hygienic functions. Certain components such as Langerhans cells(64), plasma cells(65), apocrine glands(66), and sebaceous glands(67), collectively secrete emolliating lubricants(68) rich in enzymes such as lysosomal enzymes, chymotrypsin, neutrophil elastase, immunoglobulin, cytokine(69), cathepsin B (70) , and langerin which kills the HIV virus(71), all these substances function to sequester and “digest” foreign pathogens. The foreskin is also responsible for the production, retention, and dispersal of pheromones such as androsterone(72). In time we will discover even more information about the foreskin and its functional components.
Craig Ginsberg
8:55 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
he intact penis is naturally clean and maintains a level of hygiene that is optimal when compared to a penis that has been altered by circumcision. In fact, a myriad of rigorously controlled studies performed by objective researchers among racially and socioeconomically homogeneous study groups in developed urban settings have shown that circumcision is either often associated with an increased risk of bacterial infections, viral infections, and major STD’s, or no significant difference. (73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82,83,84).
Needless to say, circumcised men have been denied normal bodily functions associated with anatomically correct genitalia.
Refrences:
(1)Williams, N; L. Kapila (October 1993). "Complications of circumcision". British Journal of Surgery 80 (10): 1231-1236.
(2) Bollinger, Dan; Boy's Health Advisory (2010-04-26). "Lost Boys: An Estimate of U.S. Circumcision-Related Infant Deaths". Thymos: Journal of Boyhood Studies 4 (1): 78–90
(3) Gellis, SS. Circumcision. Am J Dis Child 1978;132:1168.
(4) Lallemand C-F. Des Pertes Seminales Involontaires, 3 vols. Pasis: Becht Jeune 1836, 1839, 1842. Vol1.,pp.463-1: vol2., 70-162; vol. 3,.pp266-7,280-9
(5) Dixon EH. A Treatise on Diseases of the Sexual organs. New York: Burgess, Stringer & Co. 1845. pp.158-65
(6) Moses MJ. The Value of circumcision as a hygienic and therapeutic measure. New York medical journal 1871 Nov;14(4):368-74
Craig Ginsberg
8:56 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
(7)Kellogg, J.H. (1888). "Treatment for Self-Abuse and Its Effects". Plain Facts for Old and Young. Burlington, Iowa: F. Segner & Co. Plain Facts for Old and Young (1881 edition) at Project Gutenberg
(8) Hutchinson J. On Circumcision as preventive of masturbation. Archives of surgery 1891 Jan;2(7);267-9
(9) Remondino PC. Negro rapes and their social problems. National popular review 1894 Jan;4(1) 3-6
(10) Cockshut RW. Circumcision. British Medical Journal 1935 Oct 19;2(3902):764
(11) Guttmacher AF. Should the baby be circumcised? Parents Magazine 1941 sept; 16(9):26,76-8
(12) Miller RL. Snyder DC. Immediate circumcision of the new born male. Am J Obstet Gynecol 1953, Jan;6 (1):1-11
(13) Fishbein M. Sex hygiene. In: Fishbein M(ed). Modern Home Medical Adviser. Garden City, New York Doubleday& Company:1969. pp. 90. 119.
(14) M. F. Campbell, "The Male Genital Tract and the Female Urethra," in Urology, eds. M. F. Campbell and J. H. Harrison, vol. 2, 3rd ed. Philadelphia: W. B. Saunders, 1970),1836.
(15) F. A. Hodges, "Short History of the Institutionalization of Involuntary Sexual Mutilation in the United States," in G. C. Denniston and M. F. Milos, eds., Sexual Mutilations: A Human Tragedy (New York: Plenum Press, 1997), 35.
(16) Robert Tuttle Morris, M.D. Is evolution trying to do away with the clitoris? American Association of OB/GYNs Vol.5, 1892, pp.288-302
(17) T. Scott McFarland, M.D. Circumcision of Girls. Journal of Orificial Surgery. Vol.7,July 1898,pp.31-33
Craig Ginsberg
9:00 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
(18) Benjamin E. Dawson, A.M., M.D. Circumcision in the Female: Its Necessity and How to Perform it. American Journal of Clinical Medicine. Vol.22, No. 6, June 1915, pp.520-525
(19) Belle C. Eskridge M.D. Why not circumcise the girl as well as the boy? Texas State Journal of Medicine Vol. 14, May 1918
(20) Mc Donald, C.F., M.D. Circumcision of the female. General Practitioner Vol. 18 No3, Sept 1958, pp.98-99
(21) W.G. Rathmann M.D. Female Circumcision: Indications and a new Technique. General practitioner Vol. 20, No.3, Sept 1959, pp.115-120
(22) Adler R, Ottaway S, Gould S. circumcision: We have heard from the experts; now let’s hear from the parents. Pediatrics 2001 Feb;107(2):E20
(23) Topp, S. (1978, January). Why not to circumcise your baby boy. Mothering, 6, 69-77.
(24) Fleiss, Paul M.D. What your Doctor May Not Tell You About Circumcision. Warner books. New York. Sept 2002.
(25)Stang , M.J., & Snellman, L.W. (1998). Circumcision practice patterns in the United States. Pediatrics, 101(6)
(26)Gunnar MR, Fisch RO, Korsvik S, Donhowe JM. The effects of circumcision on serum cortisol and behavior. Psychoneuroendocrinology 1981; 6(3):269-75.
(27) Porter FL, Miller RH, and Marshal RE. Neonatal pain cries: effect of circumcision on acoustic features and perceived urgency. Child Dev 1986;57:790-802.
(28) Porter, FL, Porges SW, Marshall RE. Newborn pain cries and vagal tone: parallel changes in response to circumcision. Child Dev 1988;59:495-505.
Craig Ginsberg
9:00 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
(29) Emde RN, Harmon RJ, Metcalf D, et al. Stress and neonatal sleep. Psychosom Med 1971;33(6):491-7.
(30) Gunnar MR, Connors J, Isensee, Wall L. Adrenocortical activity and behavioral distress in human newborns. Dev Psychobiol 1988;21(4):297-310.
(31) Anders TF, Chalemian RJ. The effects of circumcision on sleep-wake states in human neonates. Psychosom Med 1974;36(2):174-9.
(32) Marshall RE, Stratton WC, Moore JA, et al. Circumcision I: effects upon newborn behavior. Infant Behavior and Development 1980;3:1-14.
(33) Marshall RE, Porter FL, Rogers AG, et al. Circumcision: II effects upon mother-infant interaction. Early Hum Dev 1982; 7(4):367-74.
(34) Lee N. Circumcision and breastfeeding. J Hum Lact 2000;16(4):295.
(35) Anand KJS, Hickey PR. Pain and its effects in the human neonate and fetus. New Engl J Med 1987;317(21):1321-9.
(36)Taddio A, Goldbach M, Ipp E, et al. Effect of neonatal circumcision on pain responses during vaccination in boys. Lancet 1995;345:291-2.
(37) Taddio A, Katz J, Ilersich AL, Koren G. Effect of neonatal circumcision on pain response during subsequent routine vaccination. Lancet 1997;349(9052):599-603.
(38) LaPrairie Jamie L. Murphy Anne Z. Neonatal Injury Alters Adult Pain Sensitivity by Increasing Opioid Tone in the Periaqueductal Gray. Front Behav Neurosci 30 September 2009.
(39) Boyle GJ, Goldman R, Svoboda JS, Fernandez E. Male circumcision: pain, trauma and psychosexual sequelae. J Health Psychol 2002;7(3):329-43.
Craig Ginsberg
9:01 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
(40) Rhinehart J. Neonatal circumcision reconsidered. Transactional Analysis J 1999;29(3):215-21.
(41) Ramos S, Boyle GJ. Ritual and medical circumcision among Filipino boys: evidence of post-traumatic stress disorder. In: Denniston GC, Hodges FM, Milos MF (eds) Understanding circumcision: A Multi-Disciplinary Approach to a Multi-Dimensional Problem. New York: Kluwer Academic/Plenum Publishers, 2001: pp. 253-70.
(42) Menage J. Post-traumatic stress disorder in women who have undergone obstetric and/or gynaecological procedures. J Reprod Infant Psychol 1993;11:221-28.
(43) Van der Kolk BA, Perry JC, Herman JL. Childhood origins of self-destructive behavior. Am J Psychiatry 1991; 148;1665-71.
(44) Jacobson B, Bygdeman M. Obstetric care and proneness of offspring to suicide. BMJ 1998; 317:1346-49.
(45) Salk L, Lipsitt LP, Sturner WQ, et al. Relationship of maternal and perinatal conditions to eventual adolescent suicide. Lancet 1985;i:624-7
(46) Van der Kolk BA. The compulsion to repeat the trauma: re-enactment, revictimization, and masochism. Psychiatr Clin North Am 1989;12(2):389-411.
(47) Goldman R. The psychological impact of circumcision. BJU Int 1999;83 Suppl. 1:93-103.
(48) Maguire P, Parks CM. Coping with loss: surgery and loss of body parts. BMJ 1998;316(7137):1086-8.
(49) Hill G. The case against circumcision. J Mens Health Gend 2007;4(3):318-23
(50) Goldman R. Circumcision policy: a psychosocial perspective. Paediatr Child Health 2004;9(9):630-3.
Craig Ginsberg
9:02 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
(51) See photographic series in: lander MM. The Human prepuce. In: Denniston GC, Milos MF (eds). Sexual Mutilations: a human Tragedy. New York: Plenum Press; 1997. pp.79-81
(52) Taylor JR, Lockwood AP, Taylor AJ. The prepuce: specialized musocsa of the penis and its loss to circumcision. Br J Urol 1996 Feb;77(2): 291-5
(53)Jefferson G. The peripenic muscle; some observations on the anatomy of phimosis. Surgery, Gynecology and Obstetrics 1916 Aug;23(2):177-81.
(54)K. O'Hara and J. O'Hara. The effect of male circumcision on the sexual enjoyment of the female partner. BJU International, Volume 83, Supplement 1, Pages 79-84, January 1, 1999.
(55) Moldwin RM, Valderrama E. Immunohistochemical analysis of nerve distribution patterns within preputial tissues. J Urol 1989 Apr;141(4):499A. (abstract)
(56) Dogiel AS. Die Nervenendigungen in der Schleimhaut der asseren Genitalorgane des Menschen. [The nerve endings in the afferent mucosa of the human genital organs.] Arch f. mkr. Anat. 1893; 41: 585-612.
(57)Bazett HC, McGlone B, Williams RG, Lufkin HM. Depth, distribution and probable identification in the prepuce of sensory end-organs concerned in sensations of temperature and touch; thermometric conductivity. Archives of Neurology and psychiatry 1932 Mar; 27(3):489-517
(58) Ohmori D. Uber die Entwicklung der Innervation der Genitalapparate als peripheren Aufnahmeapperat der Genitalen Reflexe. Zeitschrift fur Anatomie und Entwicklungsgeschichte 1924;70(1):347-410.
Craig Ginsberg
9:02 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
(59)Winkelmann RK. The Cutaneous Innervation of the human newborn prepuce. Invest Dermatol 1956 Jan;26(1):53-67
(60)Winkelmann RK. The erogenous zones: their nerve supply and significance. Mayo Clin Proc 1959;34(2):39-47.
(61)Halata Z, Munger BL. The neuroanatomical basis for the protopathic sensibility of the human glans penis. Brain Res 1986 Apr23;371(2):205-30.
(62)Morris L. Sorrells, James L. Snyder. Fine-touch pressure thresholds in the adult penis . BJU 2006 Oct:22, pp. 864-869
(63)Yang, DM; Lin H, Zhang B, Guo W (April 2008). "Circumcision affects glans penis vibration perception threshold". Zhonghua Nan Ke Xue 14 (4): 328–330
(64) Weiss GN, Sanders M, Westbrook KC. The distribution and density of Langerhans cells in the human prepuce: site of diminished immune response? Isr J Med Sci 1993 Jan;29(1);42-3
(65) Flower PJ, Ladds PW, Thomas AD, Watson DL. An immunopathologic study on the bovine prepuce. Vet Pathol 1983 Mar;20(2):189-201.
(66)Ahmed A, Jones AW. Apocrine Cystadenoma: a report of two cases occurring on the prepuce. Br J Dermatol 1969 Dec; 81(12):899-901.
(67)Hyman AB, Brownstien MH. Tyson's "glands": ectopic sebaceous glands and papillomatosis penis. Arch Dermatol 1969 Jan;99(1):31-6
(68)Parkash S, Jeykumar S, Subramanyan K, Chaudhuri S. Human Subpreputial collection: its nature and formation. J Urol 1973 Aug 110(2):211-2
Craig Ginsberg
9:04 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
(69) Ahmed AA, Nordlind K, Schultzberd M, Liden S. Immunohisto chemical localization of IL-1 alpha-, IL-1 beta-, IL-6- and TNF-alpha-like immunoreactivities in human apocrine glands Arch
(70) Frohlich E Shamburg-Lever G, Klesses C. Immunelectron microscopic localization of cathepsin B in human apocrine glands. J Cutan Pathol 1993 Feb;20(1):54-60
(71)de Witte L, Nabatov A, Pion M, et al. Langerin is a natural barrier to HIV-1 transmission by Langerhans cells. Nat Med 2007 Mar;13(3):367-71
(72) Cohn BA. In search of human skin pheromones. Arch Dermatol 1994 Aug; 130(8):1048-51
(73)Dermatol Res 1995;287(8):764-6Smith GL, Greenup R, Takafuji ET. Circumcision as a risk factor for urethritis in racial groups. AM J Public Health 1987 Apr;77(4):452-4
(74) Bassett I, Donovan B, Bodsworth NJ. Male circumcision and common sexually transmissible diseases in a developed nation setting. Genitourin Med 1994 Oct;70(5):317 -20.
(75) Bassett I, Donovan B, Bodsworth NJ, Field PR, Ho DW, jeansson S, Cunningham AL. Herpes Simplex virus type 2 infection of heterosexual men attending a sexual health sentre. Med J Aust 1994 Jun 6:160(11);697-700
(76) Van Howe R. Does Circumcision Influence Sexually Transmitted diseases?: a literature review. BJU Int 1999 Jan;83 Suppl 1:52-62.
Craig Ginsberg
9:06 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
77) Laumann EO, Masi CM, Zuckerman EW. Circumcision in the United States: prevalence, prophylactic effects, and sexual Practice. JAMA 1997 Apr2;277(13):1052-7
(78) Dickson NP, Van Rood T, Herbison P, Paul C. Circumcision and risk of sexually transmitted infections in a birth cohort. J Pediatr 2008;152:383-7.
(79) Cook LS, Koutsky LA. Holmes KK. Clinical presentation of genital warts among circumcised and uncircumcised heterosexual men attending an urban STD clinic. Genitourin Med 1993 Aug;69(4):262-4
(80) Van Howe, Robert S. (May 2007). "Human papillomavirus and circumcision: A meta-analysis". Journal of Infection 54 (5): 490–496.
(81) Dinh, T.H.; M. Sternberg, E.F. Dunne and L.E. Markowitz (April 2008). "Genital Warts Among 18- to 59-Year-Olds in the United States, National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, 1999–2004". Sexually Transmitted Diseases 35 (4): 357–360.
(82) Van Howe, R.S. (January 1999). "Circucmsion and HIV infection: review of the litarature and meta-analysys". International Journal of STD's and AIDS 10: 8–16.
(83)Amir J. et al. Circumcision and Urinary Tract Infections in Infants. Am J Dis Child (1986), vol. 140, p. 1092.
(84)Prais D. Shoov-Furman R, Amir J. Is circumcision a risk factor for neonatal urinary tract infections? Arch Dis Child Published Online First: 6 October 2008.
Lauren Stone
8:54 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
Oh please! Male infant genital mutilation HAS NO BENEFITS AT ALL. Babies don't have sex! CONDOMS prevent disease, not amputation. Herpes? People get herpes on their mouths too, shall we excise their lips? Girls are 10X more likely to get UTI's than boys. Let's circumcise girls too then! breast cancer in men is more common than penile cancer. Let's scrape out the breast tissue on baby boys too. Circumcised men get penile cancer too. Plenty of pseudo-science mumbo jumbo also used to claim that circumcision of boys AND girls prevented mental illness, polio, scoliosis, deafness, seizures and a slew of other ridiculous claims that have all been dis-proven.
Craig Ginsberg
9:09 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
Penile cancer is so rare that it is irrational to even concern yourself with it. It is no more logical to amputate your toes to prevent toe cancer. In fact scar tissue is a known site for the development of cancerous growths. Many circumcised males that had penile cancer, had actually developed cancerous growth starting at the circumcision scar.(25) Scar tissue is known to have a tendency for cancerous growths. Speaking of toe cancer, musician Bob Marley died of cancer that developed at a scar on his toe. Why is it that people do not preemptively amputate their toes to entertain an irrational fear of toe cancer?
Refrences:
(1)Bissada NK. Post-circumcision carcinoma of the penis. I. Clinical aspects. J Urol 1986; 135:283-5.
Craig Ginsberg
9:49 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
And worst of all, more then 117 (5) to 230(6) infants die from circumcision every year.
In fact more infants die form circumcision then adults die form penile cancer (penile cancer is extremely rare) (6). More infants die from circumcision then SIDS. More infants die form circumcision then infants die of smoke inhalation and car accidents combined during the first month of life.(5)
(5) Bollinger, Dan; Boy's Health Advisory (2010-04-26). "Lost Boys: An Estimate of U.S. Circumcision-Related Infant Deaths". Thymos: Journal of Boyhood Studies 4 (1): 78–90
(6) Gellis, SS. Circumcision. Am J Dis Child 1978;132:1168.
a
10:18 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
I asked my pediatrician (on his pediatrician "ask the doctor" forum) what his medical opinion on circumcision was and if leaving my son intact was "sacrificing my son's health" as my mom told me.. and this is his copy and pasted response -
Circumcision is an optional cosmetic choice. I would base your decision on how you would want the penis to look cosmetically.
now that is NOT a medical reason, but stating the frustrating fact that circumcision is only a cosmetic procedure started way way in "the old days" to "cure" masturbation and other crazy ailments, and still carried out today because a lot of Americans think that it is a given that boys are circ'd at birth, and the fathers of these new babies that are circ'd believe that their sons should look just like them, which is crazy! So when does this penis comparison happen? well it doesn't, so leave their penises alone. Just because you had the unnecessary removal of your foreskin doesn't mean your son has to have the same genital altering surgery. the buck stops here, and we need to make a change NOW.
I hear talk about the boys and men that were cir'd at birth and they are fine with their penises now, Im sure if you left them intact they'd be fine too. They accept what they have, and male ego probably can't let them think any other way than that.
let them be, let them be, let them be. born as god made them, let them be.
Craig Ginsberg
10:26 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
i summarize the protective, hygienic, and immunological functions of then foreskin here:
http://intactipedia.org/index.php?title=Immunological_and_Protective_Function_of_the_Foreskin
Julieanne
10:41 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
OK so Craig you have an opinion. GET OFF IT ALREADY. Seriously, obviously you have a personal issue with this. HOWEVER, the studies that show that circumcision is a good idea are FACTUAL. As someone who has had a friend go through an ADULT circumcision because of issues that happened during puberty.---I can a test that he would have much rather had it done as an infant. SO yeah. BTW---HIV is not a GAY disease to think so is bigoted and shows how undereducated you are.
Craig Ginsberg
10:53 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
if the benefits were "proven" why have no official medial organization in the world recognize them?
No official western medical organization in the world recommends it, not even in Israel!. The Royal Dutch Medical Society, The British Medical Association, the Canadian Pediatric Society, and the Royal Australian College of Physicians have all made official policy statements against circumcision. The AAP, the AMA, the AAFP, and the AUA are in agreement that there are no proven benefits. they all have officially termed circumcision as non-therapeutic or ritual surgery.
Craig Ginsberg
10:54 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
was your fiend prematurely retracted as a baby?
circumcision is almost never necessary. Send him this link for non surgical treatments of penile problems.
http://www.cirp.org/library/treatment/
Dont you wonder how Europeans survive with out circ?
Craig Ginsberg
10:56 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
policy statements of official medical organizations:
http://www.cirp.org/library/statements/
I am not bigoting gays. I don't make up the statistics. Some of my best friends are gay.
Craig Ginsberg
11:02 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
is every medial organization in the world stupid?
Dr. Robert Van Howe actually conducted the largest review of the scientific literature on STD’s and circumcision ever published. His conclusions are startling:
"The medical literature does not support the theory that circumcision prevents STD’s" (6) Van Howe R. Does Circumcision Influence Sexually Transmitted diseases?: a literature review. BJU Int 1999 Jan;83 Suppl 1:52-62. [7]
To confirm this, the National Health and Social Life Survey conducted at the University of Chicago, found:
"First, Circumcision status does not appear to lower the likelihood of contracting an STD. Rather, the opposite pattern holds. Circumcised men were slightly more likely to have had both a bacterial and a viral STD in their lifetime." [8]
7 Van Howe R. Does Circumcision Influence Sexually Transmitted diseases?: a literature review. BJU Int 1999 Jan;83 Suppl 1:52-62. http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/STD/vanhowe6/
8 Laumann EO, Masi CM, Zuckerman EW. Circumcision in the United States: prevalence, prophylactic effects, and sexual Practice. JAMA 1997 Apr2;277(13):1052-7 http://www.cirp.org/library/general/laumann/
Craig Ginsberg
11:03 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
Most studies on HPV performed before 2006 had poor controls and relatively small study groups. In order to clear up this confusion, a recent 2008 study on HPV had an enormous study group of almost nine thousand men in the United States. This is currently the largest study on circumcision and HPV ever performed in the U.S. And since the study was performed in the U.S., the results are directly applicable to people who live in the U.S. They concluded:
"The percentage of circumcised men reporting a diagnosis of genital warts was significantly higher than uncircumcised men, 4.5% (95% CI, 3.6%–5.6%) versus 2.4% (95% CI, 1.5%–4.0%)". [3]
Circumcised men where about twice as likely to have HPV! The claim that circumcision prevents cervical cancer in women is a detestable myth with sexist implications. This is based on the presumption that circumcision prevents HPV and that HPV increases the risk for both cervical cancer and penile cancer. Since this HPV claim has been thoroughly discredited, the cervical cancer myth is also now debunked. It has now been shown that circumcision increases the risk for HPV. Hence circumcision may increase the risk of both penile and cervical cancer by increasing the spread and acquisition of HPV. The practice of circumcision could very well be a contributing factor to the prevalence of HPV in the U.S.
Craig Ginsberg
11:03 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
Nevertheless pro circumcision advocates have continued to mine for data in inapplicable communities like rural Uganda with the intent to prove that circumcision does reduce the risk for HPV. Yet, when these studies are performed they get an incredible amount of press. Why did the previous study I present not gain any publicity?
In the studies I have provided thus far, they have have used racially and socioeconomic homogeneous study groups in developed urban western settings. This is something that most if not all of these pro-circumcision studies do not account for.
(3) Dinh, T.H.; M. Sternberg, E.F. Dunne and L.E. Markowitz (April 2008). "Genital Warts Among 18- to 59-Year-Olds in the United States, National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, 1999–2004". Sexually Transmitted Diseases 35 (4): 357–360.http://journals.lww.com/stdjournal/Fulltext/2008/04000/Seroepidemiology_of_Human_Papillomavirus_Type_11.8.aspx Retrieved 2011-03-5
Craig Ginsberg
11:06 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
if the benefits where so "FACTUAL" we would not have SOOOOO many Conflicting conclusions.
Julieanne
11:13 pm on Saturday, March 19, 2011
Craig has never heard of the CDC apparently.
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/circumcision.htm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29777922/ns/health-mens_health/
UNAIDS and WHO (world health organization) http://www.unaids.org/en/media/unaids/contentassets/dataimport/pub/pressrelease/2007/20070328_pr_mc_recommendations_en.pdf
Really it goes on and on..
Also to comment on your claim of nerve endings in the foreskin. UNTRUE. There are no nerve endings. The nerve endings are in the GLANS and the FRENULUM. WHICH is not removed during circumcision. Please learn your biology. For those who went to nursing school in the 70's um--they don't do it that way anymore. IT is painless. Like I said in my first comment surgeries can go wrong. BUT Craigs claim that 1 out of 3 babies dies..IS INACCURATE MISINFORMATION. 1 out of 3000 have complications...not leading to death. BUT nice try. As I stated in the beginning do your research. Do not spread misinformation because you have a strong opinion. THAT is irresponsible. Good night.
Ruth
12:20 am on Sunday, March 20, 2011
Apart from the fact that all the HIV study's quoted were not conducted done in the US and really have no reflection on our society.. it also did not address the fact that said studies did not prevent HIV in WOMEN or Homosexuals, at the end of the day, the argued studies were done in countries where Raping a new born baby is considered a way to cure AIDS !!!! Condom's are the only real barrier against STD.... And as for your "no nerve endings" in the Penis, first off Lady! your not a male so don't try to claim like you know cause you DON'T..... Secondly... You do need to "Rip"the foreskin from the GLANS to REMOVE IT hence forcible removal 20.000 nerve endings!!....... if you've ever seen an INTACT infants penis you'd know this!!! your comments are idiotic, ignorant and just plane stupid...get your facts straight!!!!! his body his choice!
If that ain't good enough for you Julieanne!!! Since your a CHICK how about we through back to them "Olden days" and remove the hood of your Clit and sew up your vagina so it can look good and feel tight!!!! ... hell while we're at it let's give you a boob job and take away your right to vote too!!!!!!!!!!!
Kyle
11:08 am on Sunday, March 20, 2011
Julieanne: You seem to be well-informed on the subject, so I'm hoping that you can answer something for me. I'm very interested to know how my foreskin can be so sensitive to fine-touch and stretching if it contains no nerve endings. Since you have done your research, and know your biology, please point me to a source that can explain that.
Craig Ginsberg
4:16 pm on Sunday, March 20, 2011
1 i don't just imagine the medical literature.
2 the frenelum is usually removed. The innervation of the foreskin IS A FACT. there is no refuting the work of countless respected nero anatomical researchers. The foreskin is the most sensitive part of the penis PERIOD!
3. The CDC nor the WHO recommend infant circumcision they promote volitionality adult male circumcision in AFRICA. They use African studies to delegate AFRICAN POLICY. African studies CAN NOT nor EVER be extrapolated to populations in developed Western urban settings . PERIOD. Fore the reasons described in my HIV post. Besides an HIV vax will be available by the time CHILDREN today grow up. CHILDREN IN AMERICA don't have sex with prostitutes infected with genital ulcer disease at trucker stops in Kenya.
Craig Ginsberg
4:16 pm on Sunday, March 20, 2011
never said 1/3 i said 117 to 230 a year that about 9.7/10,000
Henry
8:04 pm on Sunday, March 20, 2011
Julieanne, the CDC is not a medical professional association, but a governmental agency, and we all know what governmental agencies are like…. Likewise, UNAIDS and WHO are not medical associations, but international agencies supported by governments, and we all know that they are even worse than our US governmental agencies.
No nerve endings in the foreskin? Circumcision is painless? I should let my medical students know about that tomorrow. It should make the news.
You are absolutely correct that surgeries can go wrong. It is particularly sad, when unnecessary surgical interventions go wrong. It is unethical and it should be criminal when unnecessary and contraindicated surgeries are forced on non-consenting individuals, such as in routine infant circumcision, and it should at least be involuntary manslaughter when any of these infants die as a result of such an assault. And it happens every year in this country ….
Craig Ginsberg
11:41 am on Monday, March 21, 2011
I never said any thing like this this pisses me off.
"BUT Craigs claim that 1 out of 3 babies dies..IS INACCURATE MISINFORMATION"
This is what i said.
A wide range of surgical complications occur in 2-10% of the cases.(1) Since there are approximately 120 million circumcised men in the United States today, it stands to reason that there are millions of men who suffer daily from the effects of these botched circumcisions. Perhaps worst of all, more then 117(2) to 230(3) infants in the U.S. die from circumcision every year.
The 117 estimate is from, 2010 and it makes for 9.01/10,000 deaths.
The complications estimate is all FARR newer then you 1970s' education. back then complication rate studies dident exist, studies on trauma and every thing else did not exist either.
(1)Williams, N; L. Kapila (October 1993). "Complications of circumcision". British Journal of Surgery 80 (10): 1231-1236.
(2) Bollinger, Dan; Boy's Health Advisory (2010-04-26). "Lost Boys: An Estimate of U.S. Circumcision-Related Infant Deaths". Thymos: Journal of Boyhood Studies 4 (1): 78–90
(3) Gellis, SS. Circumcision. Am J Dis Child 1978;132:1168.
Craig Ginsberg
11:45 am on Monday, March 21, 2011
every circ research expert i have ever consulted agrees that this complication estimate is the most accurate publication that exists in the medical literature(1). This estimate uses a superior and realistic methodology.
(1)Williams, N; L. Kapila (October 1993). "Complications of circumcision". British Journal of Surgery 80 (10): 1231-1236.
Craig Ginsberg
11:56 am on Monday, March 21, 2011
i mean if i really wanted to give you skewed info i could throw you a couple publications that claim a 35(1)-55(2)% complication rate. these count more "minor skin tags". Where as other studies ignore them because the bodies of children are typically not something to be respected.
However a complication rate of 2-10% (3) is most accurate as it is based on the largest review of the medical literature on complications and circumcision ever published!
I guess cultural, ideological, and religious indoctrination is just to powerful for some. Such childish behaviour generates reason to dismiss the academic literature. I mean these people already live in a world where their "facts" do not requite scientific validation, the arbitrary and scientifically unfounded sataus-quo of their primitive and uneducated culture is typically good enough for them. "No nerves in the foreskin" is a perfect example of such unfounded claims.
(1) Kaplan, G.W. (August 1983). "Complications of Circumcision". Urologic Clinics of North America 10 (3): 543–549. PMID 6623741. http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/kaplan/. Retrieved 2006-09-29.
(2)Patel H. The problem of routine infant circumcision. Can Med Assoc J 1966; 95:576.
(3)Williams, N; L. Kapila (October 1993). "Complications of circumcision". British Journal of Surgery 80 (10): 1231-1236. http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/williams-kapila/#n14
Craig Ginsberg
12:02 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011
To me, this sounds like Julieanne IS the IRRESPONSIBLE one spreading MISINFORMATION.
""1 out of 3000 have complications...not leading to death. BUT nice try. As I stated in the beginning do your research. Do not spread misinformation because you have a strong opinion. THAT is irresponsible. Good night.""
I mean here 1/3000 claim has absolutely no reference. Did she make this number up? Is she a reciting a number she read in a text book in the 70"S? As i explained today we have abetter idea of the complication rates because there has been more data collected, in then 70s no body had any clue what it was, no accurate study's have ever been done yet.
Craig Ginsberg
12:25 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011
if Julieanne actually read the CDC link she would find that not only do they use the 2-10% complication rate they also say this policy is for AFRICA and can NOT be extrapolated for the U.S.
However they misquote this sensitivity study(1) and dodge the innervation of the foreskin all together. However paediatric organizations like the royal Australian college of pediatricians, the royal dutch medical association, the British medical association, and the Canadian paediatric society clearly discuss not only the innervation of the foreskin but the functions of the foreskin.
This is typical avoidance behaviour of the authors for those with missing body parts(2) like those at the CDC.
So the question is, it is a better decision to follow the recommendations directed to CHILDREN in western cultures as set forth by PAEDIATRIC associations or is it better to follow a policy for VOLUNTARY ADULTS IN AFRICA proposed by an organization like the CDC that does NOT specialize in CHILD care?
Looks just like some one grasping at straws to validate the indoctrination of her barbaric culture to me. This is irresponsible, she is in denial for her own children and is spreading MISINFORMATION to put her fragile little world at ease.
(1)Morris L. Sorrells, James L. Snyder. Fine-touch pressure thresholds in the adult penis . BJU 2006 Oct:22, pp. 864-869
(2) Maguire P, Parks CM. Coping with loss: surgery and loss of body parts. BMJ 1998;316(7137):1086-8.
Craig Ginsberg
4:25 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011
also if you are to push the claim that there are no nerves in the foreskin you should try reading my research above, look up my references and read them, If i am wrong, which i am not, it should be easy for you to discredit this.
Michelle
12:15 am on Sunday, March 20, 2011
Since the beginning of America's male genital cutting era, "Doctors" and religious zealots have been inventing new claims by fabricating "studies" "prooooving" it: *cures epilepsy*1870 Lewis A. Sayre; *prevents spinal paralysis"1870 Lewis A. Sayre; *creates an immunity against masturbation* 1871 M.J. Moses; *prevents clubfoot*1875; Lewis A. Sayre *cures nocturnal emissions and abdominal neuralgia*1879 H.H. Kane; *prevents crossed eyes* 1886 William G. Eggleston; * 1888 John Harvey Kellogg promotes circumcision as punishment for boys to discourage them from masturbating.*; *1890 William D. Gentry declares that circumcision cures blindness, deafness and dumbness. *; *1893 Mark J. Lehman demands immediate implementation of mass circumcision of all American boys.*; *1894 P.C. Remondino says circumcising blacks will help prevent them from raping whites.*; *1898 T. Scott McFarland says he has "circumcised as many girls as boys, and always with happy results."*
and of course, lets not forget the modern day scare tactics used to $ell/ $olicit an arbitrary male genital reduction surgery, such as the current claim "circumcision prevents HIV/AIDS ". When one claim has been refuted, another takes its place. "Circumcision" is a "cure" always in search of a disease.
Why do the circumcised in America try so hard to demonize a normal, natural body part? Doctors lack the understanding of a complete anatomically correct male genitalia. They're only taught to remove the "unknown".
a
11:27 am on Sunday, March 20, 2011
there isn;t one part of my body that does not have nerve endings, that statement is ludicrous, no nerve endings in the foreskin, just crazy!
just look at the stats, not of these studies which are VERY flawed, but of the stats of the civilized places like England, Ireland, Italy, India, where intact men are very much the majority, and look at their rates of all the diseases that some say circumcision "cures"
get the WHOLE story!
it is not necessary to perform this painful surgery on newborn baby boys, no one gains anything... I dare you to leave the boys intact and see what happens.... they grow up just as healthy as circ'd boys, and they get to skip the painful surgery, and keep their whole penis, AS GOD MADE THEM
vanessa h
11:43 am on Sunday, March 20, 2011
There is some great information and some solid resources.
All I can add is this:
Routine infant circumcision is unnecessary. The risks and damage caused to the genitals far outweigh any arguable pros when using logic.
It is a basic human rights violation.
Lindsay
1:50 pm on Sunday, March 20, 2011
In most European countries men are not circumcised. These countries do not have a higher STD/HIV rate, in fact they have lower rates than the US(where most adult men our circumcised). The men there also do not NEED to be circumcised later as they know how to take care of the foreskin there and know phimosis or infection does not mean a man needs circumcision. All those countries think we are nuts for performing infant circumcision.
Craig Ginsberg
4:24 pm on Sunday, March 20, 2011
yep Europeans think it s joke. They think we are a joke. They are usually shocked to hear that America is such a primitive bronze age tribe of savages.
Johan van Grussvoldt
9:10 pm on Sunday, March 20, 2011
Hi to whomever wrote the article and others here present. I would like to say that I was more than shocked to learn that in USA males born have to be circumcised like Jews and Muslims and create a problem maiming their penises with a surgery that it is only done in Europe only WHEN there is a problem in the penis that can not be corrected by other means which it is very rare.Less than 1 boy in 3,000 may have a problem related in their penis or testicles to require such a radical surgery like the one here discussed and so gratuitously offered.And I will like to inform the article writer that I can assure you that foreskin has many more nerves and veins because I do own one and has always felt very good everywhere and not only in the frenulum and glans.From where have you got such erroneous information,it is just not possible.Others here are trying to help you,listen.
Michelle Helms
9:38 pm on Sunday, March 20, 2011
Johan, I wrote the article, but you must have me confused with one of the comments from another reader. This is a Question and Answer Forum for readers in our community to discuss these questions with one another, and I presented the question: Should you circumcise your son? I answered with my personal experience and never once did I imply that the foreskin or any other part of the male anatomy has no nerve endings! Wow. In fact, I welcomed the opinions of others and mentioned that when my son was circumcised 14 years ago, there was very little information on circumcision available easily. But thanks for your comments, it's interesting to hear what others in our community (or from another community, in this case) feel about these particularly heated topics.
Craig Ginsberg
3:48 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011
this is the conclusion from the most recent HIV meta analysis of all available literature
"The demographic evidence indicates that the relationship
between male circumcision and HIV seroprevalence is
complex, and that both positive and negative relations can
be found for a variety of reasons. No evidence of an overall
protective effect of male circumcision was found for the
countries studied, and if there is an effect at the individual
level it is buried in a mix of many other intervening factors.
"
Michel Garenne. African Journal of AIDS Research 2008, 7(1): 1–8.
Craig Ginsberg
3:50 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011
this researcher wrote this article: http://wehonews.com/z/wehonews/archive/page.php?articleID=5792
he says:
"Somehow, it seems some in American medicine haven’t progressed that much. Critical evaluation confirms that current reasons for circumcision are no more credible than they ever were."
Craig Ginsberg
3:59 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011
when the RCT's came out the first Cochrane Collaboration Report on circumcision cautioned about researcher bias, stating:
“Circumcision practices are largely culturally determined, so there are strong beliefs and opinions
surrounding them. It is important to acknowledge that researchers’ personal biases and dominant
circumcision practices of their respective countries may influence interpretation of findings.”13
13. Siegfried N, Muller M, Volmink J, Deeks J, Egger M, Low N, Weiss H, Walker S, Williamson P. Male circumcision for prevention of heterosexual acquisition of HIV
in men (Cochrane Review). In: The Cochrane Library, Issue 3, 2003. Oxford.
Craig Ginsberg
4:00 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011
why have i never seen a Japanese or Indian, or south American researcher publish a circ study that claims benefit?
Michelle
5:03 pm on Monday, March 21, 2011
The question: Should you circumcise your son?
Its tragic its even a question. Being born healthy does not warrant surgery. The human blueprint included the prepuce organ for both females and males as a default setting. You're already born intact. Someone, a culture, the media, articles (much like this one) will try to influence parents to elect their son for the removal of a normal body part. Someone had to convinced the parents to sign a "piece of paper" risking the amputation of all or parts of his genitals.
Some questions are subjective. Pro-cutting health care providers wishing to make an egotistical, as well as, a monetary profit will often phrase this question, "Do you desire to circumcise your son?" This is solicitation. FACT: The AAP does NOT recommend routine infant circumcision. They do encourage doctors to speak with their client's parents. At the same time, the hospital has a strict protocol that states: DO NOT TELL PARENTS ANYTHING UNLESS THEY ASK. You are forbidden to read a "consent form" until AFTER you meet your son. You've just given birth for goodness sakes! You and your partner is exhausted from an amazing feat! Are you really in your best mind frame to even consider an irreversible arbitrary genital surgery? Are doctors soliciting for the removal of any other healthy body part? There should be a SLEEPING DOG'S POLICY: Don't ask parents, "Would you like your son circumcise?"
Are you keeping your son INTACT?
Hugh7
5:21 am on Wednesday, March 23, 2011
Julieanne: "There are no nerve endings. " The research showing there are many thousands of nerve endings is Taylor, J.P., A.P. Lockwood and A.J.Taylor The prepuce: Specialized mucosa of the penis and its loss to circumcision
Journal of Urology (1996), 77, 291-295 If there are no nerve endings in the foreskin, why does arch-circumcisionist Brian Morris recommend circumcision "to prevent zipper injury"? Zipper injury in a part with no nerve endings would be painless. It is not. Please stop repeating nonsense.
"The nerve endings are in the GLANS and the FRENULUM. WHICH is not removed during circumcision." The frenulum is a poor remnant of the ridged band, which Taylor discovered, and which encircles the inside of the tip of the foreskin. The frenulum is frequently removed by circumcision, at the whim of the circumciser, as you can see here. http://www.circumstitions.com/Restric/Images/Comparison/fren1-2.jpg (NSFW)