1162 has nothing to do with 'improving failing public schools'. That's what the $7+ BILLION of annual taxpayer $$$ we Georgians are ponying up is supposed to be doing and what's it's obviously not doing. Thus the need for 1162's passage to ensure that parents have alternatives to the same tired, status-quo model of education that Mrs. Hooper and other govt employees keep trying to prop up and complain about lack of funding.

To them, even $7 Billion for a single state's education is not enough and now they're terrified that successful charter schools will illustrate how poorly a job they've been doing with our money these past few decades that GA has increased its per-child spending 100% without the results to show for it.

I'm voting YES to 1162 and NO to the current public education model that's failing 1 of 3 Georgia HS students and that leads to corruption such as that seen in the APS Cheating Scandal. Hoping the current public educational model will somehow change and provide a quality 21st century education for our children is the height of folly.

'Hoping' and 'change'. Now where have I heard THAT before?

Elizabeth - Yes. I have. For me there are a few key elements left out of the discussion so far;
The State Board of Education has the authority to over rule the proposed commission approved charter school [ref. line 94].
The State Board of Education has the authority to physically review a charter school facility AND the course of studies. [ref. line 98].
Lines 99 through 117 of HB 797 provide standards charter schools must meet to remain approved...and those requirements are actually more concrete as written in HB 797 than I can find in any existing laws in Georgia that traditional public schools must meet. Apples to apples; HB 797 is more specific as to what charters are to achieve than traditional public schools. If you disagree to where I have overlooked law, please correct me.

If you have a solution to improving Georgia as a whole within the existing budget constraints then give them to us. Charters may not be the solution, certainly the existing system is not effective in Georgia based on graduation rates, achievement. I too tire of false promise and am looking for solutions.

The jury is out for me on how I will vote in November which is why I'm going about collecting information from sources such as HB 797 and not just listening to one side or the other.

Elizabeth, good article. The "appointed State Charter Commission" that you mention will be POLITICALLY appointed by Georgia government officials, not educational leaders, parents, or other experts. Do we really need another politically appointed commission? We have charter schools in many counties now; I don't think the argument concerns whether or not charter school should be allowed, or if the state of education is failing our children. That discussion is for a different day (month, year?) entirely, The question is, do we want a state-level, politically appointed commission overriding a LOCAL county Board of Education's approval or denial of a charter school, thus taking the local decision making out of the equation? The majority of charter schools are denied on the local level because of a lack of proof of being able to fund the school - which means the cost carries over to the local BOE. The state, from what I understand, has already overridden many local BOE's decisions, and allowed 13 of 15 charter schools to be funded/started that were denied originally on the local level. The result? State wide standards (amount of money spent per student, for example) take the local control out of our hands once again. Our local education funds are reduced in the long run to pay for a statewide issue. In my opinion, keeping the decisions on the local level is much more beneficial to everyone, whether or not we agree on the issues surrounding public education.

Mrs. Hooper, did you happen to read my reply? Where did I express a belief that this addresses failing schools? I clearly said voting YES on 1162 helps provide parents an alternative to failing schools.

The $7.17 billion of federal and state tax $$ being spent on GA public education in 2012 is supposed to help failing schools. Given the state's failure to graduate 1 of 3 HS kids and our near-bottom rankings in many educational stats, that's clearly not happening and won't happen, as the Admins & Superintendents of GA Public education are more focused on Funding than Educating.

Parents need an alternative to traditional public schools that are failing their children. As taxpayers subsidizing the system, we deserve this alternative. Voting YES to 1162 provides that. A no vote ensures the death of choice and a return of many kids to dismal public schools that failed them in the first place.

How can anyone defend the status quo of GA traditional public education at this point?

I too am tired of double-speak politicians. I'm also tired of crony-filled local school boards and APS-styled corruption. Voting YES to 1162 helps parents get around those. If you enjoy mediocre state ed. rankings, cheating scandals, and a 33% HS dropout rate, vote No.

Why should DeKalb County taxpayers not have an alternative to this???

http://www.11alive.com/rss/article/255289/3/DeKalb-Schools-to-discuss-SACS-scrutiny

Here's a very interesting article I saw referenced by another reader. It's from a Board of Education member from the Reagan years. Note the importance of the ELECTED officials rather than the APPOINTED ones. http://www.newswithviews.com/iserbyt/iserbyt107.htm

Phil,
IE2, used in Forsyth and Gwinnett Counties, allows for flexibility by the local boards because we opted out of using certain federal or state funds in exchange for a mandated set of goals that we must meet. We aren't beholden to "you do this, because you received funding for ____." We have a charter school here in the county that spends less per student than other charter schools in other counties, except now, the state has to fund those other counties using our county's (and others') tax dollars in order to meet the state guidelines for per student spending.

Local BOE members are elected, and therefore are able to be replaced during the next election, if they are "unqualified" as you state (and as many are.) An appointed commission, no matter how "diverse," is simply adding another step to an already convoluted system. There is a place for charter schools, and there are already successful ways of implementing more of them; we don't need another "government oversight committee" in order to have choice for our people.

Stacy - Your question to me "what precise evidence do you have to make the statement that Georgia's schools are not effective?" Answer: Take the word "precise" out of your question, and I would refer you to the Georgia Department of Education, the National Center for Education Statistics, and a boat load of other data showing Georgia ranks slightly below the national middle for math, science, and reading. Below the middle in a Nation that ranks 25th out of 32 in Math ranking of industrialized nations while we spend almost more than any other nation. That is why I say INEFFECTIVE. I doubt we differ that below the middle is acceptable.

Once again I ask my original challenge to you: If you have a solution to improving Georgia as a whole within the existing budget constraints then give it to us.

I'm looking for solutions and status quo is not the solution. Charter may not be the solution, but status quo certainly has proven it is not a solution to success within the taxing constraints. I opposed HB 797 in committee because I wanted the existing GDOE to take on with the existing staff. I still believe Dr. Barge's department is a buracracey worth trimming. My solutions start there with the money saved by trimming flowing directly to education.

I'm not sure how stopping a successful education program could make you feel better about the failing system. Charters are not for profit!!! So is the current system. When a kindergarten teacher can make $100,000 a year and have no accountability!! Charters creates better education an family involvement that I've never seen in public school. And why would anyone care if they make a profit? They do what they do for less money! It also leaves the local money in the public failing school. So in effect it creates more money for them to do less with.

I'M YES BECAUSE I WANT A CHIOCE!!!

We as a people need to take control of the people that work for us!!! Starting at the local government and going up!! Until then, I'll take any improvement I can.

Elizabeth: To restate what I said in my 1st post; I am neither a proponent or detractor of charter schools, but gathering facts so I can make a decision in November. The issue for me is a State wide question and is not limited to a local system. The failures of Clayton, McDuffie, etc. is a State issue and not a local issue for me. I do not want you to frame my views through questions into an implied support of the Amendment and the creation of a State Charter Commission. I am undecided, which is why I asked you for solutions in lieu of being forced to support an alternatives to the status quo such as the Amendment.

My direct answer to your question - I have not chosen to support the Amendment which means I can not justify an appointed State Charter Commission. I'm not dodging your question - I simply can't justify what I do not support.

With that said; I can not confirm what you assert as "authority" (law) regarding legal authority of the SBOE to over ride a local board. Please cite "precise" source in O.C.G.A so I can verify SBOE has legal authority to CURRENTLY over ride the local board granting a special and non-special charter school. My verification of your assertion would go a long way toward my decision.

Your turn to answer: do you [Elizabeth] have a solution to improve Georgia's public education within current tax constraints? I am in hope you can give me a workable alternative and not pose another deflection.

Steely,
The "special" charter schools of which you speak are defined in lines 160 - 165, I believe. It seems, in my opinion, to give a large parameter of what constitutes a the definition of "special." The legislation wording is that a potential charter school, "Demonstrates that it has special characteristics, such as a special population, a special curriculum, or some other feature or features which enhance educational opportunities, which may include the demonstration of a need to enroll students across multiple communities or an alternative delivery system; provided, however, that the petitioner shall demonstrate a reasonable justification for any proposed special curriculum that has a narrow or limited focus." Many denials have funding as the reason, not the whether or not they are "special." Those denials are saving tax payers the burden of paying for another system run by appointed officials. Rather than LOCAL "short-sighted, crony-filled local BOEs".(your words), would you rather have STATE and FEDERAL "short-sighted, crony-filled BOEs" running the show? It's hard enough to be heard at the local level, let alone at the state level - and I'm talking about those who were ELECTED. You cannot get an appointed person out of control as easy. That's what is troubling to me. I can't find anything on the appeal process, so I might be wrong, but appointed vs. elected is a pretty major point to think about. It's the main point for me with regards to this issue.

Ms. Hooper's agenda is not reflective of all the parents in Georgia, many of whom are stuck in a feudal system of control over their children and their children's education. This year, I received a form letter from my child's school stating that parents are to make appointment before visiting their children at school, except at lunch. These people are out of their government controlled, lunatic minds. WE WANT CHOICES NOW!!!

Steely Dan,
First, you make a few assumptions in your post that I find a bit condescending. How is it that you presume to know anything about me based on our conversation here? "If you pro-status-quo folks don't trust the State and Fed, then you should stop taking their (OUR!) money." I find it amusing and thoroughly hypocritical that all the status-quo lovers, admins, and superintendents hate the State and Fed but LOVE the endless stream of govt cash they're providing."
Second, you state that "1162 will allow parents and communities (i.e. parental control) to appeal the decision of a Local BOE." True. But to whom will they appeal? The politically APPOINTED commission who, in some cases, might be "tempted" to vote in favor of a particular Charter based on "factors" other than educational ones.
Third, you state that "Any charter denied by a local BOE (i.e. most of 'em) won't received a dime of local district money. That's clearly written in 1162." I can't seem to find that written in the legislation. The money for state chartered schools comes from state educational funds ("OUR money", as you say). Therefore, it might not directly "'RECEIVE'" a dime of local district money" but that local money will be DIVERTED from local districts/charter schools to help fund non-local disctricts/charter schools the same way it's already occurring. (BTW, there's no underline font, so I'm not yelling in all caps, I'm simply putting emphasis on certain points..

Bill Evelyn - I appreciate you seeing the lunacy in this. A grandparent of one of my child's friends said this, "I think the future of education is the virtual schooling." Her grandchild was pulled out of a local school for various reasons and is now being homeschooled using Georgia Virtual Academy. Her parents both have to work, just like I do, but they have the added resource of a stay-at-home grandparent in their family who is available to be there with her. This is why the issues with caregivers at school and MORE CHOICES ARE NECESSARY - because for people who are unable to move out of their local school zone, they have no other choice if they must work. I cannot tell you the number of times I have thought to myself, "As social as [my child] is, I would give so much just to be able to homeschool [my child] for even just a year." In today's complex world, staying home is a luxury for those who plan it that way or for those who are wealthy. With personal debts, responsibilities to my own retirement, and a child 4 years from college, I have no choice but to work. We moved to get out of a zone that I considered an impossible partner for educating my child, and are very happy with our current school. However, I was floored to receive that letter!
Holly J - as if the local BOEs are just going to hand over money and let the parents who are paying attention [of academically successful kids] pull their kids out of schools that would fail AYP if just that happened.

@ Listening - I'll take your advice, but I'm not holding my breath.

Apology accepted, Steely Dan.

Here's the real question about this entire proposed amendment.

Do any of you find it as upsetting (to put it mildly) as I do that we would be amending the Constitution to allow our Governor (any Governor, not just Nathan Deal) to APPOINT a commission? Do we want to give them the power to do something that the State Supreme Court ruled unconstitutional? This isn't about the state of education, whether it be public, private, online, homeschool, or anything else; it's about a fancy worded power grab, and it involves all of us, no matter how we feel about education.

@Steely Dan You speak of corruption in school systems but trust a governor who resigned his Congressional seat before ethics investigation could be completed to appoint a commission. (And who saw the Georgia ethics commission cut 42% as they were investigation him for campaign finance irregularities.) SURE, that sounds like a move in the right direction.... (Since you like the Augusta Chronicle..http://chronicle.augusta.com/news/2012-06-14/complaints-about-gov-nathan-deal-lawsuits-face-georgia-ethics-agency)

Elizabeth, You KNOW Governor Deal hasn't read this - he has "people" to do that and tell him their interpretation of it! (Well, his people and lobbyists from groups funded by all those out-of-state donors supporting the law... http://onlineathens.com/local-news/2012-08-31/out-state-donors-funding-charter-school-push)

As much as communities have the power to elect their local BOEs, the incumbents continue to get voted in because either no one else runs or people don't consider that change should occur. The truth is, this is a very complex issue. BOEs are saddled with the job of doing what is best for all the children in a community. This is very complex, because trying to serve the masses almost always means watering down what is served, especially if there is a tight budget. So, why would a local BOE want to further water down (spread less around to the masses they serve) with a charter school that will drain funds and parents of more academically successful children (because they are the ones paying closest attention to raising children and their educations)? The answer is, in an era of shrinking budgets, they won't. This leaves us with a system where schools are zoned by real estate boundaries. This creates a feudal system in which each Principal is the feudal lord and the educators are the nobles. Their power is quite large, when you think about it. Educators in many districts get tenure after a certain number of years. There is a good reason for this - to protect their years of valuable service and to protect them in case an unfair administrator tries to threaten their jobs. The problem with this is that takes nearly a criminal act to remove a teacher with tenure, even if it is clear that they hate children, or certain types of children. If there are choices, the feudal

lords must work harder to please parents. They will not treat my child poorly just because my child has a different last name than I do, and they consider that they can get away with it because I am a "poor single mother." The charter and the local schools will be competing for their customers, because they both want the highest performing, best behaved students. The teachers who treat children poorly will affect their schools, because people will choose charters over schools that harbor educators with bad attitudes that are harmful to children. The argument is that the charter will give less resources to students because they want to make a profit - but the truth is (and they know this) that they cannot make a profit unless they attract families. Attracting families is important - and they might not only attract families with high performing students. Their test scores may not be much higher than the local schools, but who the heck cares, if the families and students are happy? In my family, there is a high performance test taker, and a medium performance test taker. I don't really care if they grow up to be doctors or parks and recreation workers, as long as they work steadily, like what they do, and make a living that allows them to support their families. In order to get there, they must both engage in school, graduate, and pursue some type of post-secondary education. Charter or local, I don't care, just love them and engage them!!

We need choices = charters. The governor is trying to get charters to the public school districts in the only way that is going to be effective across the state. He knows that as the money dries up, local BOEs will be less able to do their jobs (serving all the students of their districts) with limited resources - AND preserve choices and quality within their districts. They are also very unlikely to approve a charter, when the risk of the charter not producing higher test scores is a factor. The thing is, I'll say it again, test scores are indicative of academic achievement, but they are not always the best litmus test for indicating how well a school is doing its job. True, test scores should rise with higher quality education, but when parents have a school struggling to meet AYP and a charter that does not have much higher test scores but does deliver a MUCH HIGHER QUALITY SCHOOL CULTURE - the the choice is a no brainer for the parents. Parents want their children - PARTICULARLY ELEMENTARY SCHOOL CHILDREN - in schools where their love of learning is nurtured, where they feel safe, secure, and cared for. Some kids don't become great test takers until they are a little older and their brains have had more time to develop, or their energy has become a little more focused. You know what? As a parent - I don't give a flip if my kid doesn't exceed in many areas of the CRCT as a third grader but then does exceed in several areas as a fifth grader. Be nice either way!

http://lanierteapartypatriots.org/article.asp?id=83 Tea Party says Vote NO too...