Second Sheriff's Debate Fires off Heated Questions

The Forsyth County Tea Party Patriot Alliance hosted the second sheriff's debate on Monday night.

Challenger, County Coroner Lauren McDonald, answered the first question from the audience, "What must be the top priority for the next term of sheriff, other than the obvious, public safety?"

McDonald explained that if we're going to have a great community tomorrow, we've got to start today within our schools.

"I think the most important thing for the next sheriff of this county is our children," he said. "There are issues within our school system. There's the smoke shops in our community and what they're providing to 18-year-olds who are going into our schools and selling to 17 and 16-year-olds. We've got to make a difference there."

Incumbent, Sheriff Ted Paxton, maintained that the projects of a new county jail and courthouse are the top priority.

"We are in the beginning stages of the construction of a new jail for this county and also a new courthouse. Those two projects are vital to the public safety structure of this community," said Paxton.

Challenger, Duane Piper, described the most important issue facing the sheriff's office in the next four years as the 800-pound gorilla in the room.

"The sheriff's office budget currently consumes 41 percent of the county's overall operating budget," said Piper. "We're talking about building jails, we've talked about building new facilities when we're already consuming 41 percent of the budget. We've got to get our budget under control. The jail is going to be built, and services are going to continue to improve, but we've got to go to zero-based budgeting, we've got to quit building this hodge-podge of a sheriff's office that we've got right now, quit adding to it, and we've got to start holding people accountable for the hours that they're getting paid for. We'll also be publishing a spending account. The public deserves to know where we're spending our money."

None of the three candidates said they would support the legalization of marijuana, however, the topic escalated to their growing concern over the market currently permeating the community. 

McDonald emphatically stated, "No, no, no and on top of that, synthetic marijuana is a problem in our community, it's growing in our school system and we've got to do something about it. As the legislature makes laws about the compounds, the guys who are making it are changing it."

"I know it's hard for a sheriff to enforce that law because of the different compounds and the legalization of the synthetic marijuana that's in these smoke houses. The next sheriff needs to get with his legislator and let him know what a problem it is in our community," he said.

Paxton said he'd never support the legalization of marijuana.

"To further discuss what Mr. McDonald just said, he's exactly right," he said. "We very closely monitor every retail outlet in this county that is selling that merchandise. The day that , the inventory they had on the shelf was wiped off, and the new inventory, which was now in compliance with the new legislation, was brought out of the back room and put on the shelves. Ladies and gentleman, as disgusting as the problem is, the sheriff can only enforce the laws which the state legislature has passed."

Piper said he would not support the legalization of any mind-altering substances including marijuana.

"What the sheriff was just talking about is actually very true. The synthetic marijuana that's out there right now that is killing kids is very difficult to regulate. The sheriff's organization does a very good job of advocating staying on their legislators trying to get them to make laws," said Piper. "When it comes to synthetic narcotics like that, what they [manufacturers] have to make it illegal is a specific substance, a specific molecule, one little change to still get the same effect, but it's legal, it's a big cat and mouse game, but that is a legislative question."

On the subject of auditing the sheriff's office, Ted Paxton said he's recommended and supported a thorough audit of the sheriff's office every year since he's been in office.

"The sheriff's office is audited every year by an outside independent auditing firm hired by the Forsyth County Board of Commissioners which audits every county department and every elected agency. I have in my hand right here, a letter from Mr. David Gruen which confirms that," said Paxton, holding the papers up for the audience to see proof. "Not one penny of taxpayer's dollars is unaccounted for. The notion that the sheriff's office is not audited is preposterous."

Piper said he'd support an audit. "I support an audit, but an audit doesn't tell you where your money is being spent. An audit is simply to make sure that nobody is putting money in their pocket and taking it home," explained Piper. "I don't think anybody from the sheriff's office is stealing money and taking it home, I think it's being spent unwisely and an audit doesn't do anything to stop that. What we need is to publish an account of our spending."

McDonald also supports annual audits, explaining the need for transparency to the citizens who fund the 42 different departments in Forsyth County.

"An audit is very important. I want to talk about zero-based budgeting. It's got a good ring to it, but at the end of the day it's a very time consuming process," said McDonald. "You're given a budget by commissioners. As the sheriff of this county, you have to determine how to implement that money that's going to best serve you as citizens of Forsyth County. Starting with a zero-based budget, I don't think that's a good idea, especially right out of the gate as a new sheriff in this county. I think that the time ought to be spent developing some good programs that are going to help you in your communities, help your children in the schools."

Candidates also responded to the question, "What is the annual cost of incarcerating illegal aliens in the Forsyth County Jail and what do you think can be done to eliminate taxpayer funded incarceration of these individuals?"

McDonald said he does not know of any cost associated with the incarceration of illegal aliens. "I do support the deportation of illegal aliens back to their own country." 

Paxton explained that it doesn't cost the county anything to house illegal aliens in the county jail because we do not house people in the county jail solely for being in this county illegally.

"We do not have the authority to enforce federal immigration law, said Paxton. "Everyone who is incarcerated in the Forsyth County Jail is charged with a violation of a criminal offense regardless of whether they are in this country illegally or not. That is of no consequence as of the criminal charge against them. We do participate in what's called the Secure Communities Project where everyone who comes into the jail is fingerprinted. If they are found to be a criminal alien, once criminal charges here in Forsyth County are adjudicated and resolved, then Immigration Customs comes and picks them up, and relocates them for deportation", explained Paxton. "To say that we house people solely on the fact that they are in this country illegally is incorrect." 

Piper explained that he'd advocate and participate in any program to help reduce any problems and costs of incarcerating illegal aliens. "But aside from just illegal aliens, there are a number of programs and a number of things we could be doing right now to cut down on the jail population as it stands," said Piper.

"Quite a large percentage of what we have in our jail stems from things like misdemeanor probation violations. Misdemeanor probation violations are generally non-violent offenses and these folks sit in jail until they see a judge to find out that they're not going to get any jail time. Why are we not working with our judicial system to come up with programs so that we don't put these people in jail in the first place?" asked Piper. "We have to find another way to deal with them so we're not putting them in jail."

All three candidates addressed the question, "How important is police experience for a sheriff's department candidate?"

McDonald said he thinks a management background is important.

"I think as sheriff of this county, one of the most important things you can do is of course working with the local commissioners on your budget and having the proper people in place in your enforcement division and investigative division. The sheriff, [Paxton] when you took over office in 2001, you'd never been sheriff before, you worked for a police department," he said. "Ronald Reagan had never been president before he took this country to a different level, so I don't think that having police background is the most important thing."

Paxton said, "You're right, before I became the sheriff, I had worked for a police department. I'm a career law enforcement officer, that's what I am."

"To think that the notion that the chief law enforcement officer of any county regardless of its size does not need a background in criminal justice and law enforcement, I don't understand, that's what the job is," exclaimed Paxton.

Paxton further explained, "You have got to have a knowledge and understanding of what it is that the Fourth Amendment of the constitution requires-- leaders and law enforcement to set policies within the sheriff's office that we do not violate people's civil rights. You've got to have a clear knowledge of the Fifth and Sixth Amendment, how that dictates how we work and what we do every day."

Piper agreed with Sheriff Paxton that the Fourth Amendment must be known inside and out. "You have no business trying to run a law enforcement agency if you haven't lived it for years, if you haven't studied it, if you don't know the Fourth Amendment inside and out, if you don't know how it actually looks on the street and not just how it sounds in a book," explained Piper. "Mr. McDonald, a very nice man, but he has no business going for this position."

McDonald has been serving as Forsyth County's Coroner since 2001 and is also a Forsyth County Volunteer Fireman with 24 years of public safety service. He describes his political views as inseparable from his private life and reminded the challenger and incumbent, and audience that he has never stolen one red penny from Forsyth County and he never will. "I compare my ethics and character beyond measure compared to the other two candidates."

Nearly 200 people attended the debate, which lasted for more than 90 minutes.

Voters head to the polls to cast their ballots for the candidates in the primary July 31.